03 Jan 2009

Bargnani blasts Rockets

Vegetable Lasagna? That’s Il Mago to you, son.
Rockets 73, Raptors 94

You know one of those warm days in the dead of winter when it’s like 12 degrees outside and you think to yourself, this is a really nice day, wouldn’t it be amazing if we had 12 degree temperatures the entire winter. You go to bed feeling all fuzzy and warm only to wake up and find two feet of snow everywhere, and just as you’re rubbing the sleep out of your eyes you catch the snow-plow driving off after it constructed an icy retaining wall at the mouth of your driveway. That’s when you realize that it’s still winter and things are probably going to stay like this. But hey, let’s just enjoy the 12 degree weather while we can and hope that it sticks around.

The Rockets opted to play Tracy McGrady against us instead of the Hawks hoping to go 1-1 in their back-to-back. Their thinking was that they may as well focus their energies on getting the more obtainable win. It didn’t work out. The Raptors torched the Rockets without Jermaine O’Neal in the lineup and Jose Calderon playing less than a quarter due to a hamstring injury. A great defensive effort inspired by individual performances and a commitment to team-defense held the Rockets to 73 points as Bargnani led the offensive charge for the second straight game. The Rockets shot an anemic 34% from the floor and looked a lot like the Raptors at their worst, if you don’t follow the Western Conference much you’re probably asking yourself how the hell this team managed to win 21 games so far. Give the Raptors credit, they showed up from the opening tip and followed the game-plan to perfection.

Let’s talk about this notion that we’re a better defensive team without Jermaine O’Neal in the lineup. Yes, we played better interior defense today, were only -6 on the glass and +1 in second-chance points. The interior help rotations were effective and we collapsed on Yao forcing him into 5-12 shooting (10% below is average) with 5 turnovers. We were quick to double Yao as soon as he put the ball on the floor and there weren’t many easy back-downs followed by turnaround 6-footers for him. That’s all great but I don’t see how that’s a slight against O’Neal unless we’re operating under the assumption that having O’Neal in the lineup somehow makes this group of players play less as a team mentally. O’Neal is not the answer to our defensive troubles, he’s part of a solution. That solution also requires Jamario Moon to play as effectively as he did today, that we stop dribble-penetration, that shots be contested even after we allow dribble-penetration and other such defensive subtleties. Jermaine O’Neal being on the floor isn’t preventing our bench to outrebound their bench as it happened today, it’s not preventing Anthony Parker to box-out his man and get 8 rebounds as he did today. The only explanation I can offer is that when O’Neal is on the floor the perimeter players take his presence for granted and relax their individual defense knowing that there’s someone back there to bail them out. When he’s not there, their incentive to play tighter defense increases resulting in the type of performance we saw tonight. Then again, this might’ve been a different game if the Houston wings could make a jumper.

The Raptors built a healthy 25-14 first quarter lead by shooting 55% as Bosh and Bargnani led the Raptors with 7 and 6, respectively. Yao was getting deep post position on Bargnani and had three scores against him. After that the Raptors decided to help earlier on him and Bargnani picked up his defense which bothered Yao who was forced to kick-out to his shooters who were all collectively colder than my beverage at Philthy McNasty’s. Other than Yao’s three early FGs they were 4-15 in the quarter and couldn’t punish the Raptors for doubling him. So far nothing was out of order, the Raptors had built a lead in the first quarter and the next natural step was to to watch them blow it. We didn’t have to wait long as Ron Artest opened the second quarter by hitting three straight threes, the last of which cut the Raptors lead to a single digit. Oh crap, here we go again was the feeling in the building when Will Solomon was handed the reigns as Jose Calderon limped off with a strained hamstring. The game was setup perfectly for the Raptors to blow it. Enter Will Solomon and Andrea Bargnani.

Bargnani kept Yao honest by taking it to the rim and getting fouled, driving on him for a dunk and then just for good measure, draining a long two and a three on him. Will Solomon had his best game as a Raptor and quarterbacked the team brilliantly through this crucial stretch. His court-vision was excellent as he passed up a couple so-so jumpers instead choosing to find Joey Graham and Andrea Bargnani for scores. A crucial 6 points and 5 assists in the frame by Will allowed the Raptors to stretch their lead to 10 at the half. The Rockets did do their part by playing disinterested basketball, Tracy McGrady looked like he didn’t care, Rafer Alston and Luther Head were taking shots that made Bosh’s three against Denver look like a good decision. They turned the ball over 22 times in the game and the Raptors scored 27 points off of them.

The third quarter always makes you nervous because you feel the Raptors luck just ran out but not on this night. Houston’s misery continued as a shocked ACC and Philthy’s audience couldn’t believe how bad the Rockets were playing. Their woeful shooting continued and the Raptors kept going back to Bargnani who was delivering every time. He ended with 19 points and 6 rebounds on 8-12 shooting and could’ve had more if there was something to be played for in the fourth quarter. McGrady looked even worse as time went on, he didn’t even bother running back to contest Moon’s steal which resulted in a very harsh response from the Houston Chronicle who insist that he’s quit on the team. Gotta love reporters who aren’t afraid to call it like it is. But it wasn’t even just that, he never looked to drive the ball or execute a move in isolation situations, all he basically did was launch long jumpers which hit back rim. The Rockets offense was entirely stagnant and consisted of one-on-one moves that were lazily executed and ended with contested jumpers.

The Raptors perimeter defense looked a lot tighter against Rafer Alston and Luther Head who aren’t exactly speed merchants. Moon’s defense on McGrady was excellent as he forced him into bad jumpers; the way McGrady poisoned his team reminded me of how Bosh does the same to us when he’s unassertive and settles for what the defense wants him to do. I might be entirely wrong because I was at Philthy’s and the crowd was pretty entertaining but I swear I saw the Raptors trap at one point. Correct me if I’m wrong. All this defense resulted in the Raptors holding the Rockets to 73 points, a season low for a Raptors opponent. Our motivated play combined with the Rockets mailing it in resulted in early garbage time which saw Hassan Adams dust off his shoes and Kris Humphries put his People’s magazine down. Aah, it’s good to see the other team looking like this for a change.

I used to do these things called “One Liners” in the post-game report on the old blog which talked about miscellaneous points in the game. I’ll reintroduce them here and just make the accompanying text a bit more verbose.

Jose Calderon: You have to feel sorry for Jose, his offensive game had been coming along of late and he was being much more aggressive in taking it to the rim and looking for his shot off the high pick. If this injury takes as long to fully recover as the earlier one then we’re in trouble. Obviously we can’t rely on Will Solomon to have games like he did today, Roko Ukic will need to produce in the minutes he’s about to get. Tonight Roko got in during garbage time and played well. He made some very nice passes, played great defense including a very clever steal on Yao as he came from the weak side. His shot still sucks and it remains to be seen how much teams sag off of him in meaningful game situations to hurt us.

Kris Humphries v Jake Voskuhl: Humphries got in the game and looked bad. He was rushing his shots and it felt like he was trying to put up numbers so he can get his minutes back. When you’re rushing your game you’re never going to be effective and to my surprise he was replaced by Rasho-lite in garbage time. I don’t get this move by Triano, why is he still holding it to him in garbage time? Voskuhl’s numbers aren’t shabby – 8 rebounds in 18 minutes and some nice defense on Yao is damn good but I still maintain if we give those minutes to Humphries he’ll do the same, if not better. Humphries doesn’t strike me as a chap who’s slacking off in practice and doing things to irk Triano so his playing time is really becoming a mystery. A drunk at Philthy’s offered the following theory: Triano had a big say in acquiring Jake and wants to see show to Colangelo how right he was in his decision.

Andrea Bargnani: Great shooting game and more importantly, great decision making based on matchups. In the pre-game we talked about how he needs to shuffle Yao’s wooden feet on the perimeter and that’s exactly what he did. It’s hard to say whether he’s better coming off the bench or starting, or playing the C versus the SF, because last year he struggled in every role we put him in and did the same earlier this year too. If he finds consistency in his current role and the results are good, we’ve got no other option than to move O’Neal to the bench. Let’s see if Bargnani can do it for three games in a row against the team that torched him in the playoffs.

Jason Kapono: 22 minutes, 3 turnovers, 2-7 FG. One of three things is happening, 1) teams are playing very good defense on him, 2) we’re not using him properly, or 3) He’s being too passive with his shot. I saw him pass two three pointers, one where he drove baseline and lost the ball and another where he opted for a runner which was no good. Guess we were being too simplistic in our thinking that two post-presences in Bosh and O’Neal would result in open looks for Kapono. I say trade the sucka.

Chris Bosh: Looked better in this game but hardly as good as he did earlier in the year. Took a lot of 15-18 footers and you almost lost track of him on the floor. On a night like tonight we didn’t need him but he definitely needs to make his presence felt in the upcoming games, especially if he feels a trade is not necessary. Maybe he’s saving himself for Howard on Sunday and the Boston back-to-back starting next Sunday.

Jermaine O’Neal: Why isn’t he on the bench? Nobody in our media brings this up and I think it’s a very important topic. Obviously I’m not insider the Raptors locker-room and have zero clue on what the players think of his absence but it’s got to be in the back of their minds. The same drunk at Philthy’s offered this explanation: O’Neal was totally hammered before Golden State game and was basically trying to play off a hangover and was uncoordinated enough to bang his knees.

Wing play: Joey Graham was moving without the ball and got rewarded by Solomon for a couple dunks. He is easily the most aggressive Raptor and continues to thrive under Triano, it’s looking very likely that he might stay in the NBA past his rookie deal. Still would like to see more of Joey in the post after inviting a mismatch through a slide-screen or a pick ‘n roll. He’s definitely got what it takes to finish against smaller/weaker players and we need to use it more. Jamario Moon looked about as good defensively as he’s ever done. And against T-Mac too. Go figure.

Sobering Stats: The Rockets’ biggest advantage was in the paint and we ended up winning the PINP battle 40-32. The Raptors are the worst fast-breaking team in the league, the Rockets and second-worst. We won the stat 11-4. The Rockets shot 34% compared to our 48%.

Houston didn’t play well today but that doesn’t stop me from notching this as a quality win. It’s a good start to 2009, hopefully we can keep this going and all that talk of rebuilding and blowing everything up can be put to rest.

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45 Raps

  1. We all had a great time last night at RAPTOR FAN FRIDAYS watching the Raps blowout the ‘Pocket’ Rockets!! (BOH!!)

    And that was a weird article from the Houston Chronicle… To me, T-Mac is trying to save himself for the playoffs. And with his health issues and career inability to win a series, I can’t blame him or the organization for trying to get the most out of him this spring.

  2. Andiamo says:

    good shit as usual arse…that article on twac sums him up.twac=bitchmade.
    GO PLYMOUTH!

  3. irrelevant says:

    They just don’t play the same with JO on the floor, it is what it is. Don’t question it, they are feelin’ it. Previous game too, as I said. Different team.

  4. David Moro says:

    I know Tracy mailed it in tonight, but so have many a superstar. T-Mac is saving it for the playoffs. And really, anyone who watches the NBA regularly should be saying…no shit.

    Houston was stupid to play him tonight anyway. Toronto is a team they should have beat handily with or without Yao AND Tracy (should you care to argue, don’t let me remind you of the OKC game).

    Atlanta was the “prestige” matchup–the one he should have played and where he should have been necessary.

    Is he 100%? No. He’s probably hobbling along at 50-60% of the real Tracy. What the Rockets need to do is give it up and give him whatver surgery he needs so he can either come back for the playoffs or let him fucking retire.

    He’s almost done. Why do you think he passed on Orlando? They got his best in prime years and it hobbled him–busting his ass baseline into traps like what happened to Wade before they got him a little help and a half-decent coach. It got him hurt. You think he wanted to hobble off with the “best player for the Magic” being his swan song? Fuck no.

    Why do you think it is that Chris doesn’t want to go inside? Is it because he can’t beat Luis (feet of stone) Scola one on one? No.

    It’s because he wants his payday. And because he wants to play as long as possible. Same decision that Vince and many other stars made. The only guys who didn’t go punkass was Jordan and Drexler–who managed to retire while they were still on top of their prime (Jordan came back but no one expected shit from his anyway). You notice Roy is already starting to get the recurring knee and back problems. He won’t last long trying his Jordan impression for long.

    Crying about how they don’t play the game with passion while their knees are fucked up and almost done is pathetic. He’s doing his best to give them playoff wins–that’s all he cares about. For all this hand wringingthat team has 21 fucking wins already–the same as Orlando.

    No one will care about this bullshit loss to a crap team in the spring when TMac drops 40 on some unsuspecting stupid team that forgets why he still plays.

    Let’s call a spade a spade. McGrady is no less and no more what he is. He was brought to win in the playoffs and be a hired gun. He’s doing his job. Just don’t ask him to give a shit about regular season.

    • Andiamo says:

      REALLY…what playoff success has twac ever had in his entire career?

    • Arsenalist says:

      David, there’s so many things wrong with what you’re saying.

      - Rockets could’ve “handily” beat the Raptors without Tracy but got blown out by 21 with Tracy. That makes no sense.

      - Saving himself for the playoffs? The Rockets might be 1.5 games out of 3rd but they’re also a half game from falling out of the playoff picture altogether. You got to be assured of good playoff positioning before you can save yourself for it.

      - T-Mac wants his payday? He makes 21M this year and 23M the next. He’s already had his payday. If he wants any team to pay him close to what he’s making he’s got to prove himself yet again because those 6 straight playoff exits aren’t exactly championing his cause for another big contract.

      - T-Mac his a “hired gun” for the playoffs and his “doing his job”??? You know he’s never won there, right?

      • David Moro says:

        I was talking about Chris there, not TMac in terms of the payday.

        Have you seen how well McGrady’s played in those series he lost?

        I said, according to record and talent they SHOULD HAVE beaten Toronto easily. They have a very nice and tidy record despite his injury woes. The point is, he’a almost done so stop crying about how hard he worked. He doesn’t care about some meaningless regular season game against Toronto.

        Yes, they do have to keep winning in the tough western conference. But that has nothing to do with playign a guy at 50% and expecting him to produce grear things. Give it up.

        I said he’s trying, i didn’t say he’d succeeded.

  5. Neil says:

    I brought my girlfriend’s dad to the game last night, so it was an unusally sober night at the ACC for me. And what I saw – aside from the Raps playing fierce defence – was a terrible Chris Bosh. Several times defenders were actually giving him the space to drive left on them, and he just kept on taking contested jumpers. Sure, a bunch of them went in but… plus he didn’t fight hard for rebounds either. Man, I can’t believe the way I am falling out of love with this guy.

    I have the same affection/confusion for Hump that you do, and it stung a little to see him taking those stupid jumpers. But hey, if his performance in Golden State couldn’t help him get more minutes, what could a few minutes of chucking to do hurt him?

    PS – I like the analysis this “drunk at Philthy’s” is bringing to the table. Can we get him to replace Leo?

  6. Pizzaman says:

    One of the best overall efforts this team has put up, and bargnani came up big again. This team cannot quit on Bargnani as many fans and many on the team have. He has been jerked around by this team for two and a half years now as a starter, bench guy, center, PF, SF, etc….
    He also needs to take much of the blame for his lack of effort on many nights, but I still say much of it has been lack of confidence in himself, and knowing there has been a general lack of confidence in him from his teamates. When he works to get low in the post he does not get the ball most times, and unlike Bosh, Calderone and especially Moon and Parker if Bargs make a coupe of misses or mistakes he does not see the ball again. It’s a mystery why Moon and Kapono do after their mistakes but that’s what has been happening. Bargs can be a good center in this leauge with proper coaching and teamates who share the ball with him. He will have a hard time with Howard, Shaq etc… but who won’t. He can easily play against most other centers in the league.For him to be effective this team needs to give him the minutes regardless of how he plays on given nights and he should be able to start at center for this team and produce, while opening up the floor better than most other centers.

  7. AltRaps says:

    “I’m day-to-day,” O’Neal said with a shrug before last night when asked if he will play tomorrow here against the Orlando Magic.

    This guy needs to be removed from this team. We play better without him and he obviously doesn’t care to show his support of this squad by being on the bench cheering his teammates on, but does make himself available for smartass quotes to the media. Something tells me his pompous swagger on the floor doesn’t stop in the locker room. Get him out. Now.

  8. perception says:

    JO is the biggest mistake has ever been made here, am I wrong? And all they have to do is not play him, Bargs solved. Or he can support Bargs off the bench I guess.

  9. perception says:

    The JO experiment has gone too far already. That’s my take.

  10. Pizzaman says:

    I agree. Since Bargs is signed for a couple more and has more talent than O’neal currently has, and needs consistent playing time to get better give it to him now and bring O’neal off the bench. They pretty much have a miserable season going anyway so they really need to make Bargs the player he can and should be this year. That should be their priority. If they can they should trade O’neal for a solid wing player.

  11. khandor says:

    Whenever:

    * Chris Bosh plays as the Center for this team, as he did last night … when he was the Main post-up interior player, on offense, but with the responsibility of checking the Rockets’ PF when Yao Ming [C] was in the game … and is FOCUSED on the other parts of his individual game, NOT scoring … he plays well individually AND the team is capable of playing at a very high level

    * Andrea Bargnani plays as a Perimeter Power Forward [PF], as he did last night … when he was the Main perimeter scorer, on offense, but with the responsibility of checking the opponent’s Power-based Center, like Yao Ming [C], if he was/is in the game … and is FOCUSED on playing the game like Bill Laimbeer, but with the added ability to take up to 2 dribbles towards the basket in a half-court drive situation … he plays well individually AND the team is capable of playing at a very high level

    * Joey Graham plays as a Small Forward [SF] … who should be the 2nd post-up option for this Raptors team … that is FOCUSED on Rebounding, defending bigger, physically dominant #3’s, like Ron Artest & Lebron James & Paul Pierce, etc., finishing passes at the rim with dunks, and shooting stand still J’s, exclusively of the “catch & shoot” variety … he plays well individually AND the team is capable of playing at a very high level

    * Jamario Moon plays as a either a SF or an Off Guard [OG] … that is FOCUSED on Rebounding & Defending … rather than scoring … he plays well individually, with energy, AND the team is capable of playing at a very high level

    * Kris Humphries plays as a PF … that is FOCUSED on Scoring Points, Rebounding, banging defensively and, in general, providing ENERGY for the team, whether as a valuable role player in a Starting spot or as a Key Sub off the bench … he plays well individually AND the team is capable of playing at a very high level

    … given the positive contributions of Jose Calderon [PG] and Anthony Parker [OG/SF/back-up PG],

    the current Raptors team has the core pieces in place for a solid, middle-of-the-pack outfit … i.e. somewhere between #5-12 … in the Eastern Conference.

  12. PapiJulio says:

    I read a post from a Indiana fan directed towards the Raptors. It said….

    “Just wait till O’Neal starts popping pain killers just to play. He did it in Indiana… he do it in Toronto.” I really hope that’s not true.

    O’Neal is a Tough Dude. Almost too tough for his own good. It seems like he doesn’t want to let down the team/fans down. He plays through the pain. I can respect a guy that will suck up the pain & not be a Wince. But… then again if you DON’T listen to your body it will stop giving you warning signals and just break down one day. His track record isn’t the best.

    I’m a BIG fan of O’Neal but the little voice in the back of my head keeps saying…”At any moment O’Neal could fall down. And All The Kings Horses & All The Kings Men couldn’t put Jermaine together again.”

    Somebody please tell me I drank too much and I’m delusional….

  13. irrelevant says:

    It is what it is.

  14. T-mac, has been cooked for a while now, hes just holding on for dear life or as some of say it “Saving it 4 the playoffs”

    Unexpected victory but the rockets have been struggling as of late.

  15. Scott G says:

    khan – isn’t what your proposing similar to what a healthy utah would do at PF/C? (Booz at PF, but being the post-up guy on offense; Memo at C, but being a perimeter guy on offense who also guards the other team’s post-up guy) Bosh is clearly the superior interior offensive player to Bargs, but also pretty clearly the inferior interior defensive player, at least against guys with a power game. As we saw this summer with team USA, Bosh is so much more valuable to a team than just his scoring – we need to exploit that here more often!

    Either way, it’s clear this is a far better team without JO. Amazing how adding a good individual talent can sometimes detract from the sum of the parts, in specific situations.

  16. khandor says:

    Scott G,

    As a simple point of reference … Addressing a popular misconception in the NBA.

    What the Utah Jazz [Coach Sloan] do, in order to be competitive in this League, is rightfully understood as a Variation of The Form … which SHOULD BE standard operating fare for good coaches anywhere, depending on the individual skill sets of their players.

    In so many different instances/aspects of the game, including the proper deployment of his players, offensively and defensively, what Jerry Sloan does is absolutely first-rate.

    IMO, for the Raptors … there are clearly instances in which either Andrea Bargnani or Kris Humphries IS the better/best defensive/rebounding match-up vs a specific Opponent Big [i.e. in the post, on the perimeter, or in transition] AND other clear instances when Chris Bosh IS.

    That said … It has also been clear to me for a long time now that Chris Bosh IS IN FACT THE CENTER [PIECE] of this Raptors team, in so many different and important ways, regardless who his individual check might be on a given defensive possession within a specific game. : )

  17. khandor says:

    Scott G,

    re: Either way, it’s clear this is a far better team without JO. Amazing how adding a good individual talent can sometimes detract from the sum of the parts, in specific situations.

    Yes, it is.

  18. verbatim says:

    one thing being overlooked so far:

    there is one thing that the Raptors missed, however, against Orlando last year: someone to push around Dwight, even a little. Bosh tried, but then he had no gas left for offence. it is one thing to get hacked and go to the line on offence when you aren’t getting beat up on defence.

    i love the idea of who bargnani could be on this team – but we will lose in the playoffs with the lineup you propose, khandor. JO was our attempt to lighten Bosh’s load on defence. Unfortunately, it has also had the effect of pushing Bosh farther away from the rim, something I was worried about. The one thing that I thought would save this from happening, and I have not seen, is crisp passing between JO and Bosh to cause havoc inside. Combine this was passing out, and you have a double passing threat.

    Ideally, I saw JO and Bargnani swapping minutes 50/50 much like Calderford used to do. JO was in the golden years of a good career, I thought he would settle for this, and still bring intensity. I was hoping that JO would be like David Robinson on the Spurs, a defensive monster, a tower in the paint who made the right moves, but let Duncan (Bosh for us) do his thing when he wanted to. Maybe this would all happen with the right coach at the helm – and Vegetable Mago would develop perfectly as Il Mago under JO. Who knows? If Phil Jackson could make the Lakers of old work harmoniously, what is prevented our team from doing it? All we hear is that the team is committed to one another – there are none of the grumblings that are going on all over the league. For GOD SAKES even Bynum can’t shutup and submit to the zen master, and they are top of the league.

    i hope what i said made sense – it is some kind of a ramble.

  19. Joe says:

    Tmac is a career loser. I don’t care about his MJ like seasons in 2003 or 2005 if you cant get it done in the playoffs, your stock plummets like an Italian girl in your room. The guy has 6 playoff exists and it still hasn’t registered to him that maybe it is his fault. Does he try and get better in the off season so he can be healthy? No. Does he make his team better? No. He is willing to blame himself for there failures but he can’t really fix the problem.

    Yao, Artest, Battier, Mc Grady, Scola

    If you can’t make the second round with that team and that defense I don’t know what to tell you, TMAC

  20. Scott G says:

    Khan – what are some examples of matchups where you’d prefer Bosh guarding the other team’s center?

    In general, Bargs seems to be a far better defender against back to the basket bigs than against those with some versatility. However, there isn’t all that much versatility at the C position, at least on most teams. (Atl being one of the few teams that springs to mind that plays a center who has some ability to put the ball on the floor.)

    I’m thinking that Bosh would be better against teams that run a lot of PNR, since he’s so good at guarding on the perimeter against both big and small.

    To me, it seems that both Bargs and Bosh would be playing hybrid versions of the PF/C spots on defense, depending on matchups. On offense, however, it’s clear that Bargs is the PF and Bosh is the C.

    And as for Sloan – no doubt he’s the “best in show”! Good post on your blog regarding positional determination in the NBA, btw – definitely corrects a very common school of thought. Can I add one caveat? I think PG is a unique position, so perhaps the example using Roko wasn’t the best way to illustrate your point – I think that is the one position in the NBA that almost always calls for a specific set of offensive skills – being able to handle pressure, and being able to set up others for shots. To me, the offensive skill sets at the other positions are much more flexible than those of the PG. At the same time, your point regarding positional determination is very well taken.

  21. Arsenalist says:

    Bargnani is a better defender against back-to-the-basket guys because he uses his size well and has gotten 200% better at just keeping his arms up and “staying big”. He’s not denying post-position or fronting his man, he’s letting them catch the ball and playing fundamental defense. Other than some stretches last night where he tried to go for the steal on the entry-pass against Yao, his defense has been simple but effective. However, the rebounding numbers aren’t there which means he’s relying on someone else to clean the glass as he defends. Again, last night I saw two plays where he defended and got the rebound,a rare feat for him.

    I’m not sure Bosh has any great strengths on defense, the way Aldridge and Murhpy handled him should tell you that he has trouble guarding versatile players who can play inside and outside. One of Bosh’s problems on D is that he doesn’t have the strength to match the muscle at his position and is often overpowered in the post, I guess that’s the downside of being so wiry. He still puts up good rebounding numbers but those aren’t to be confused with great man-defense. I think the energy in his man-defense has been lacking for some time now.

  22. verbatim says:

    well, the question i ask then, is “what is the solution to our interior D?” Can Bargnani do it? Is he up to the task? I mean San Antonio can get away with the red rocket at center because of Duncan. Bargnani is better on D than he is, but Bosh is certainly no Duncan on D – would this be enough? Certainly Vegetable Mago has improved by leaps and bounds on interior D. But can he get stops against an elite post player, or a face-up player like Aldridge?

    it seems like O’Neal is the only good piece of our defensive scheme, as Moon and Parker both seem a step slower most games. I remember thinking the Bosh was a better defensive player last year – something is different this year. what is the solution???
    - – -
    look, O’Neal was a experiment that if it worked, would have made Colangelo look like a genius. and if it didn’t, the cap space is freed up for 2010. Any downside would have been temporary – even if it incurs the wrath of we Raptors faithful who are about ready for some serious results.

  23. khandor says:

    Scott G,

    re: Khan – what are some examples of matchups where you’d prefer Bosh guarding the other team’s center?

    It would really be dependent upon the specific defensive tactics in use for specific possessions within a specific game … e.g. if I WANT the ball to be fed repeatedly to the opponent’s Center in a post-up situation, or not … but, in general, scenarios like these:

    vs Philadelphia if they go with Dalembert [C] & Brand [PF]
    vs Chicago if they go with Noah [C] & Gooden [PF]
    vs Utah if they go with Okur [C] & Boozer [PF]
    vs LA Clippers if they go with Camby [C] & Randolph [PF]
    vs Oklahoma if they go with Smith [C] & Wilcox [PF]
    vs Golden State if they go with Biedrins [C] & Jackson [PF]
    vs Washington if they go with Blatche [C] & Jamison [PF]
    vs Cleveland if they go with Ilgaukas [C] & Wallace [PF] or Varejao [PF]
    vs Charlotte if they go with Okafor [C] & Diaw [PF]
    vs Dallas if they Nowitzki [C] & Bass [PF]
    vs New York if they use Lee [C] & Harrington [PF]

    in part, depending upon how important I feel it is to keep Bosh out of foul trouble vs certain opponent PF’s.

    re: I’m thinking that Bosh would be better against teams that run a lot of PNR, since he’s so good at guarding on the perimeter against both big and small.

    Precisely.

    re: To me, it seems that both Bargs and Bosh would be playing hybrid versions of the PF/C spots on defense, depending on matchups. On offense, however, it’s clear that Bargs is the PF and Bosh is the C.

    Precisely.

  24. khandor says:

    verbatim,

    re: look, O’Neal was a experiment that if it worked, would have made Colangelo look like a genius. and if it didn’t, the cap space is freed up for 2010. Any downside would have been temporary – even if it incurs the wrath of we Raptors faithful who are about ready for some serious results.

    The “downside” I can think of which might not prove to have been “worth it” in the end would be finishing out of the playoffs this season, and possibly next, as well, but in neither case being bad enough to qualify for the Draft Lottery.

  25. verbatim says:

    which is why, the if the Raps lose, I want them to really lose – like Miami style from last year…even if it breaks my heart to see

  26. khandor says:

    re: Yao, Artest, Battier, Mc Grady, Scola

    If you can’t make the second round with that team and that defense I don’t know what to tell you, TMAC

    1. I can very easily see the Rockets going out in the 1st Round again this year with that specific core group of players.

    2. The problems they’re beginning to experience recently are related to:

    [in no particular order]

    * Selfishness
    * Ron Artest
    * The slowness of at least 3 of those 5 players listed above
    * The reduced role of serviceable players like Chuck Hayes and Carl Landry

    The Rockets are certainly a collection of talented players but they may yet prove not to be one of the best four TEAMS in the Western Conference.

  27. WSG says:

    Dude! (Whoever you are … Arsenalist) I guess I haven’t been checking here enough, but that was a good read on last night’s game. Quite enjoyed it. Cheers.

  28. nunya says:

    http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_30629.aspx

    That game recap by yet another canadian hack helps explain the ignorance of Toronto fans and the overrating of Bosh.

    It implies that Bosh defeated Yao single handedly when of course in reality, Bosh had little to do with Yao and certainly didn’t over power anyone.

  29. kizzy says:

    Oh Look! Bosh dropped out completely from the NBA.com’s MVP rankings.
    He’s not even in top 25!

    http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/rob_peterson/01/02/race.mvp.010209/index.html

    Looks like they’ve stopped drinking the C-Bosh koolaid.

  30. verbatim says:

    i am getting a little bit tired of the Raps fans on this forum (probably fewer than what is actually the case) getting on Bosh for no real reason, seemingly, except they WANT our resident all-star to start tanking. Take #31 above. For God sakes, that is BAD THING. Unless, I am misconstruing the tone, given how poorly it can be communicated via written word.

    I said it before, and I will say it again. I have NEVER known Bosh to give less the 100%. If he is going through a slump lately, take it as a given that he does not WANT to be playing poorly. The team is playing poorly (minus this last game…i hope it lasts, and the Raps kick-ass, otherwise they should go for the lottery, and shut down CB4 for the season soon) as whole – not just him. Bosh is going to go to New York or some other place, instead of the Raps trying to give him help in 2010 to take the team to a championship level, and he will be paired up with a superstar and then THAT team will be a championship-level team. And what are the fans here going to do then? Bitch and whine about CB4 then too!

    For God sakes! I don’t think Bosh craps rainbows and everything he does is great. But give him some of the credit he is due for turning a post-VC devastated organization into a division champion, and a decent squad when we had nothing else going for us. What? Was it Hoffa’s contributions down-low that made us a threat in the post? Jeez guys. Come on.

  31. Scott G says:

    No kidding. If bosh isn’t in the top 25 of their MVP rankings, it says more about our lack of TV exposure and voters’ lack of hoops understanding than about bosh’s play this year.

    Arse – Murphy’s production comes largely when our porous perimeter D forces bosh to help, not because bosh can’t contain him individually. As for aldridge, no doubt he’s a load when he’s on his game no matter who guards him.

  32. Arsenalist says:

    I don’t know Scott, I had some pretty good seats for the Pacers game and those points were on him.

    Bosh not being in Top 25 for MVP ranking isn’t because of our lack of TV exposure, that’s horseshit. Its because of we’re 7 games below .500 record and out of the playoff picture. There’s only one candidate on that entire list who’s team is outside the top 8 and that’s Paul Millsap whose Jazz are 19-15 and currently in 9th in a tough West.

    Sure, the Bosh bashing does get a little out of hand, but at the same time his shot selection, decision making and hypocrisy (yelling at Moon for taking a bad three and then taking the same three) is what spurs it on, not the fans.

  33. Time Intact says:

    I think it’s too early to state that J.O. is actually detrimental to our team. I can understand it may seem like that, especially at times like last night’s game, but I think come playoff time – IF we make it that is – we’re gonna be so glad to have O’Neal guarding the paint. Last night’s victory was sweet, don’t get me wrong, but at the same time you have to realize that the Raptors were hitting on all cylinders last night – and that’s been SCARCE this season so far. We had to go all out to get that win, and I don’t know if this squad is willing to do that judging by the games they’ve played so far this season.

  34. wrong says:

    When he was not in the lineup, under Jay Triano, the team was transformed immediately. Both games were quality, not just the last one. How many more games do you want to wait to see if it’s gonna happen the other way?

  35. verbatim says:

    i’m not saying Bosh has been playing great, or that he is playing anywhere near the way we rightly expect he should. The rightly fuels criticism. I completely agree that Bosh does not deserve to be in the top 25. His team is doing poorly, and if he were so valuable, he would have found a way for us to win, much as Wade does.

    What pisses me off is the attitude among raps fans to jump all over him, and in some way seem PLEASED he is tanking so we can get rid of him and bring in some real talent. We have short memories sometimes, and I just wanted to find a middle ground between pretending he plays like a God every game (mainstream media) and some of the people posting on this site that are GLAD he is playing poorly – as if he hasn’t ever given anything to the organization when other players wouldn’t even play here. I hope that those people are not in the majority, because if I were Bosh, then I wouldn’t want to play here either.

  36. d279 says:

    verbatim…are you saying that Mr.Bosh doesn’t receive a paycheck “when he doesn’t play great”?

  37. verbatim says:

    of course he gets paid just the same – that is how the league works. but there are plenty of other teams that will be willing to pay him too. i am not sure i understand your point – if it is that he can tank it and get paid just the same, i remind you that 2010 is not far away, and if he expects to be paid the same or more, he has to get back in gear.

    players want the money, yes. But they also like to win – if Bosh feels that this squad cannot win, then maybe he has started to play a little softly to prevent strain or injury. If this is the case, then we should criticize him justly for that, because he is NOT giving 100% – if this is the case, I would appreciate Colangelo shutting down the season. But if there is honestly a spark in the team, and they start believing they can win, I want to see Bosh follow suit.

    But, hey, i still see a player dedicated to toronto, and trying to do what is best…it is not his fault the team around him hasn’t worked out either – that falls on BC’s shoulders. There is no easy answer to the Raps woes – but being glad that he is tanking so we can get rid of a player that has given so much to our franchise? Maybe this kind of mentality doesn’t actually exist…but if it does, i just don’t get it. We always criticize players about jumping franchises – well, if the fans are already doing for the player…like i said, i hope it is not a majority opinion out there

  38. Albert says:

    The reason they did so good was because Colangelo was watching them like a hawk..

  39. Mojo says:

    LMAO, yeay ENERGIES!!

  40. Scott G says:

    Arse – you’re probably right about that. MVP is not an award that can ever go to a guy whose team has done as poorly as ours. Having said that, I don’t think there’s any doubt that Bosh is as valuable to the Raps as anyone in the league is to their team. Without him, we wouldn’t be far from a D-league team some days LOL.

  41. yertu damkule says:

    we haven’t been far from D-league quality WITH him either, far too often this season.

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