Franchise Player vs. Wannabe Franchise PlayerThat’s what Jay Triano told Chris Bosh after he benched him in the third quarter because he was playing like a prima donna. Listen child, if we wanted our PF to take jumpers we’d get Dell Curry and Tracy Murray out of retirement, have them play the 4 and give them the green light to launch as many springers as they want, that would be better than watching you make a fool of yourself and make a mockery of the term “franchise player”. You want to be the MVP? How about not playing shit scared for a change and coming through when you’re matched up with a player we’re told you’re better than. Or is that all just bullshit and you’re really the worst good player in the ‘04 draft and we were just unlucky not to select 5th and get a real player like Wade up in here. I’m tired of watching him choke whenever he’s matched up with a club not named the Bobcats, it’s the same crap over and over again and it doesn’t look like it’s ever going to end. But oh wait, he’s tired, he played in the Olympics and D’d up some Euro dude named Slava so he must be exhausted. That’s probably why he’s just settling for J’s, not because he can’t drive or finish. Not because he doesn’t have a real offensive move in his arsenal, none of that. It’s because Evil Sam played him 40+ minutes a game for the first 15 games and that’s totally got him burned out by Game 25. Hell, why even bother playing the rest of the season? Put his sorry carcass on the injured list and sign Primoz to a contract, at least we’ll get some real entertainment down at the ACC.
After the game he has the balls to say this:
If I want to get booed, I’ll go on the road. It’s really tense right now. When you’re down three points at home and you’re getting booed, that’s kind of disheartening. Whether the crowd knows it or not, they play a big part in the game.”
Is this joker for real? We’re booing because we’ve seen this movie like half a dozen times already. We get an early lead, give 90% of it back by the half, give 115% of it back by the end of the third and then watch you pussy out in the fourth. That’s why the fans are booing you turd. It’s called being disgusted with your team. Your response to the NJ humiliation is jump shooting your way to 2-13 against Devean George? Your team shoots 26% in the second and third quarters and you wonder why the fans are booing? BTW, for those of you keeping track, Devean George should be added to the long list of NBA players that have shutdown Chris Bosh in a meaningful game. The list includes everyone from scrubs to greats, here are a few notables: Josh Boone, David West, LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Millsap, Nene, Josh Smith, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett….the list goes on and on. It’s sad, this is supposed to be our franchise player, the guy we’re building the club around and the one who’s supposed to take this team to the next level. Such horseshit. Too disgusted to talk about this pretender anymore.
I’m running the risk of people thinking that I’m copy and pasting these recaps but that’s just not true, we’re just consistently bad. Let’s talk about this game for a bit. We started off well in the first quarter and were shooting something like 75% 3/4 of the way through it and ended it up 11. Most of the shots we took were jumpers but when they’re going in nobody talks about why you’re not going inside or why your star player is acting like there’s a landmine in the paint. The thing about percentages is that they even out and I’m thinking to myself, the Raptors will cool off and the Mavericks will continue to shoot 46% for the game and this does not bode well. So the second quarter started and sure enough we started cooling off and the Mavericks picked up their defense and got back in the game with some three point shooting which came off of the mismatches they initiated. By the end of the half, what was a 13 point lead got whittled down to 5. This is all happening with Bosh playing like Zan Tabak and Dirk missing jumpers he usually hits while taking a piss. So I think to myself, self, there’s no way Dirk continues to miss those in the second half. See, both supporting casts did a great job of keeping their teams close in the first half as both “star” players struggled, but the supporting cast can’t win you the game over 48 minutes, that’s where your big players come in. As expected, Nowtzki heated up and Bosh remained cold, ice cold. Jason Terry and Josh Howard came through as Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani didn’t. What’s new?
Dallas is a tough team to cover because they’ve got great perimeter play in Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Josh Howard and Dirk Nowitzki. All they did in this game was run a high screen near the three-point line, waited for the Raptors to pull towards one of the two Mavs and passed to the open one for the jumper. When you’ve got great shooters that’s all you need to do. The other source of their offense was nothing but a simple straight-up pass to Nowtizki at the elbow who faced up Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani and drained a jumper in their eye. After he made his first five you’d think we’d switch it up a little and maybe make him put it on the floor, turn him into a passer and force him towards O’Neal who was doing a great job of playing positional paint defense. Triano never adjusted to Dirk which is surprising because he did make a quick adjustment in the first quarter when Josh Howard was burning Jamario Moon, he yanked Moon for Graham and the defense tightened up. We also had no answer for Brandon Bass who got his scores against Bosh face-up style and against our wings in the post, very good player.
There was another unexplainable move by Triano which is still perplexing me, Good Joey showed up in the first quarter and went 4-5 for 8 points, Triano took him out at 10:08 of the second quarter and didn’t bring him back till 10:22 of the third quarter. Whatever happened to feeding the hot hand? Joey was running the break, hitting the jumper and playing defense, don’t quite understand why he got yanked. Let’s leave their severe flaws aside for a second and acknowledge that Moon, Graham and Parker did a decent job in this game of supplying 29 points, Jason Kapono not so much. It’s becoming apparent that he’s going to be hit and miss as the starting SG, it’s not entirely his fault, he’s being asked to get his offense by running around 6 screens, pump faking a guard, dealing with the paint help and then launching a semi-contested jumper. I’m all for Kapono getting 18 shots a game but I’d like to see them come in a little more systematic fashion, not through pure chucking. Tonight he got his ass handed to him on the defensive end by Howard, Terry and the versatile Brandon Bass who can play 3 different positions. It’s just too easy for them to get their shot off against Kapono who can’t apply any sort of ball pressure and is shaken off without the help of a screen. It was dangerous what they were doing to him.
So thanks to the good play of our wings and the continued solid contributions from Jermaine O’Neal on both ends of the floor, we were up 5 at the half. That’s a good thing, we’re a struggling team playing a hot team and we haven’t been blown out, that’s something to celebrate and build upon right there. A team can go into halftime and come out two ways in the third quarter. Either they can come out thinking that they’re right there in the game and will grind out the second half on a possession by possession basis OR they can come out all insecure and scared thinking about the lead they once had. The Raptors as you know did the latter. Instead of taking on the challenge of hanging with the Mavericks by slowing the game down and playing hard-nosed inside-out basketball, our sorry defense let them go on a 23-10 run while we went strictly jumpers in the third quarter. Our leader Bosh in this quarter? 0-5 with 2 turnovers. Their leader Dirk in this quarter? 4-5 for 8 points. ‘Nuf said.
The fourth quarter starts with us stuck 6 and we start off with Roko – who played very well in his first spell – at the helm. Chris Bosh finally makes a couple shots and we cut the lead down to 2 and that’s when our defense lets us down. Ukic goes under a high screen and Barea drains a three, on our next possession Parker throws a YMCA pass which gets picked off and Barea finds Jason Terry for a trailing three to push the lead back up to 8. Another easy Brandon Bass jumper off a high-pick makes it 10 and the game is over. We don’t have the firepower or will to come back from that.
Jose Calderon is killing us, for once I’d just like to see him accelerate in transition and get to the rim to either finish the play or find a corner-sniper. Just once. He’s very enthusiastic about getting the ball to the top of the key but then loses the motivation to go any further, instead he’ll pull back and do a couple meaningless dribbles before passing it to someone on the perimeter or dumping it precariously into the low-post. Here are his assist distribution numbers, note that 5 of his assists came in that hot first quarter and the only ones that were true finds were the look-off pass to Joey Graham and finding a cutting Moon. The rest are garbage. Juan Barea’s 6 assists are far more impressive because he actually attracted a defender and then found the cheater’s man.
- O’Neal 1
- Graham 4
- Moon 3
- Bargnani 1
- Bosh 1
Calderon’s late rotations on Kidd after leaving him without a reason hurt us, Kidd burned him for two threes and another jumper at key moments in the game. Twice in the third quarter when the Raptors were trying to hang on to that first half lead and then in the fourth quarter when he hit a three to make it a 10 point game. I could live with these defensive mistakes if he operated efficiently on offense but he’s missing too many cutters, passing up too many semi-transition opportunities and failing to deliver the ball to feed mismatches. Case in point: Jermaine O’Neal had Jose Barea on him in the post and Jose Calderon failed to make the entry-pass. It was the low-point of the game for him.
Let not my criticisms of Calderon divert the blame for who lost us this game – Chris Bosh. We counted on him to cancel out, if not outplay Dirk Nowitzki and he came up so short that I’d rather have Humphries D up Dirk and see how far he gets. Jermaine O’Neal had a great game, 19 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks and 2 charges. He was the offense for stretches in the game, if he could only finish consistently around the rim we’d rely less and less on Bosh and wouldn’t be disappointed as often. I think O’Neal’s offense is starting to come back to the level it was before he got injured. In a game that followed that oh so familiar recipe of disaster, him and Graham remain the lone bright spots.
We followed our recent trend of getting killed on the boards as we were -10, but it only cost us 7 second-chance points. This loss falls more in the Sam Mitchell category of things: Bad perimeter defense and getting dominated at the G spot. Dallas shot 50% from the field and their PGs outscored ours 37-18, we left a man open too often on their screen ‘n rolls and would’ve been much better off just switching as we we had been doing of late. The differential in talent between the two teams is so great, we’re outmatched at every single position, except perhaps the center where I can safely say that Jermaine O’Neal is better than Erick Dampier. Come to think of it this game went according to plan, a home team gets off to a good start, can’t sustain the play for whatever reason (bad conditioning, lack of motivation, confidence etc.), the better team regains momentum and finishes off strong. As Devean George said about us:
The whole team looked frustrated, some doubt started to come into their mind. They started off smoking, but it’s a 48 minute game.
Yup, we got some mentally weak players on this team. And nobody’s more mentally weak than Andrea Bargnani who’s confidence gets shaken if a telemarketer doesn’t say ‘thank you’ after you tell him to piss off. What did Andrea do tonight? 1-5 for 3 points and some nasty looking bricks on open shots. I’m not holding him to #1 pick standards but can I atleast hold him to un-drafted free agent ones? Colangelo’s hoping that if it acts like a stiff, plays like a stiff, looks like a stiff, it’s probably a future Hall of Famer.
Also, since when did Jack Armstrong become an apologist for every single Raptor out there? I used to love this guy’s honesty and straight-up analysis but he’s become worse than Chuck Swirsky lately. What’s this nonsense about being the “eternal optimist” when Bosh is settling for jumpers, Jose’s putting on the breaks at the three-point line and Andrea’s playing like…well…Andrea. Our media, management and coaches have all seemed to accept mediocrity as the norm. They’ve become apologists for the team when they should be critics that motivate. If the “experts” closest to you tell you that everything’s fine and rosy when they’re not, who are you supposed to get an honest opinion from?
We’re 2-6 under Triano and have a 6 game Western ass-f*ck coming our way. I want to say that we’re capable of beating the Thunder but let me remind the denizens of the Republic that last year the Sonics blew us out 123-115 and the score doesn’t to justice to how big of a massacre it was. Let’s hope we can get a win there, not that it means much considering that this team is heading down the toilet, the only thing left to do is to pour some Draino and flush hard. Colangelo: either blow this baby up and trade this sorry excuse of a franchise player OR cross that luxury-tax line and get some real players here so we can make a legitimate run, not this pretender bullshit.
We also got this game covered via the Roll Call with AltRaps and the live blog which I had to suffer through.
94 Raps
First time I see you this pissed off. Wow. You must realize now that Bosh is a Arenas type player. No heart and is simply a stat padder
bosh is a bitch.theres a reason why he isnt yelling and screaming at his teammates to elevate their play.its because he cant elevate his own.every team needs a leader.WHO IS THIS TEAMS LEADER?whos the guy who gets in players face and reams em out till they cry?whos the guy on this team that behind closed door roughs up a teammate to light a fire or break the tension.whos the guy on this team to demolish the dressing room in fit of anger to wake everybody up?who is the fire starter on this team?….cuz it sure as hell aint bosh as we are playing like mentally weak bitches…i hope bosh proves me wrong or we need to start building this team around another player.
ADVERSITY BREEDS CHARACTER OR LACK THEREOF.
He’s hit a wall, no doubt.
Can there be any other conclusion than the team did it’s job, and was in a position for Bosh to take it from there? I mean, did they deliver a winnable game to him? Just wondering really, can there be another conclusion? I mean, this wasn’t a back to back either.
Also, do the boobirds blame Vince that the organization got nothing for him?
Well well, I see whats going on here .. (its called politics people) Always look outside the box and thats where you find the rats. Do you really think you guys know exactly what happens in the NBA; I mean inside the NBA.. No.. There are suprises in NBA where we still cant figure it out.. Like why did Kobe and Shaq split the franchise was doing so good with them together. They set up scenerios to make the general public think something else, like recently admiting coach Phil Jackson.
I am pretty sure Colangelo and Bosh well know whats the deal for 2010. For Bosh to leave he must have the Toronto fans want him to leave. How do you do that? You just play fucking terrible like you dont care and you will have the fans to be glad to get rid of you. Colangelo has his eye on a future draft pick and with Bosh gone he has room to play with his pieces and move them around the way he would like to. So with all you really disgusted by Bosh’s play dont be a sucker. Know its all part of a better team for Toronto Raptors 2010 .. Thats what Colangelo believes or this would not go on..
So expect Bosh to leave and expect Toronto Raptors be a dominant team next year. So with us trashing Bosh is exactly what they want so if you want Bosh to stay dont say anything but if you want him to go (one of the best PF in the league) keep on!!
And then were 2 for the boobirds you mean.
They did do pretty good without him yesterday it’s true.
Hold on one minute there guys. Chris Bosh doesn’t deserve this kind of flack. He is a really good basketball player, and has done a lot for this team. He is young, but extremely skilled and determined. Over the years, he is the only one on this team to show some fucking intensity and emotion. He will learn from this slump. I believe the Sam firing has taken a little bit of his steam out. Although I quickly envision it coming back soon. Specifically after one big game. He is our franchise player. Is he a Lebron James type franchise player? No. Is he a Kobe type? No. A Tim Duncan type? No. But he is A franchise player. He is our best player right here and now. No question. You say you want to trade him…for who…for what? There are only a handfull of players, okay maybe two handfulls that I would trade him for…but those players are not available. Keep Bosh. Keep him happy. Surround him with better players. And then maybe we will win a Championship. And yes, until this happens we will continue to be a mediocre team, hovering around the .500 mark(not where we are now but where I see us at the end of the year) All be it with a franchise player. Just relax there guys, it is a long seaon, over 2/3’s left. This team just needs some time and a normal schedule (with regular practise patterns) until it learns Jay’s philosophies and strategies. Joey and Jamario seem to be playing better under Triano, and as you said JO’s getting his offense back. So be patient and hopefully things get better, soon!
Albert,what games have you been watching,way to much kool aid big fella….we are the risk of losing one of the leagues best power forwards.Let us know when he shows up.The fans are booing,fuck ya…14 fuckin million dollars !!! at least JO shows some heart,he only has one leg though.
The players on that mvp list all have one thing in common,they all go to the hole,I dont need to name them ,you all know who they are,and if you dont ,watch the leafs.
When #4 considerd himself in the running for mvp,he was doing what ? driving to the basket !!!somebody must of bitch slapped him in the nuts,because he is now officially “nutless”.
Arse,I feel the love,great re cap,as usual
Bargnagni is just an average player. End of the story. He will never be the next dirk or something like that,he will never develop. After 3 years in the nba his game is always the same. Hes not agressive, he never grab a damn offensive rebound and sometimes he just dosent care.Expectations in 06? were too high and wrong. Lots of people (me and colangelo included i guess) tough he was gonna be good.. but i repeat afer 3 damn years you are what you are : one of the worst 1st pick ever. trade him.
Johny Slash
Keep Bosh,
Keep him happy !!!
What next,we line up and blow him !!!
johnny – i commend your optimism, but i’m thinking you’ve been spending a little too much time over at doughboy’s blog. i’d like nothing more than to have them hovering around .500 at the end of the season, but have a look at the schedule, then get out the calculator, ’cause the way i see it, based on how they’ve played over the last month or so, getting to within 10 games of .500 could be a challenge. at best, i see them going 4-4 over their next 8, but the sched doesn’t really get ‘easier’ until around march. they’ve shown that they can compete with teams that are truly crap, but have trouble with teams as equally shitty as them, and have almost no chance against good teams…and even less than ‘no chance’ against the truly elite.
so, based on that simple criteria (beating the shit teams – of which they are one), and losing to everyone else, their final record is gonna look something like 34-44. and that’s assuming they regularly beat teams like NY, milwaukee, indy, etc. of course, there will be games against better teams they win, but those will be cancelled out by the inevitible losses to the likes of minny, OKC, memphis, wash, etc.
of course, blowing it up ain’t the answer. why, let’s just be patient, they’re still getting acclimated to triano, who’s only been with the team for 7 years. bosh is tired. ditto for jose. both are true superstars, they just need the other guys to step up and shoulder some of burden.
sorry, 38-44.
i like how jack must have had a word with devlin at halftime, ’cause in the 2nd half, matty wasn’t calling barea ‘barrera.’
as for the overall commentary – it’s kind of normal to see them become apologists when the team is truly shit. there HAS to be some kind of excuse made, ’cause they can’t come out and say that the players simply suck/aren’t good enough. they are employees of the team/BC, and to publicly criticize not the players effort but their actual ability undermines their boss(es). it would be nice to see them call it like it is, but shouldn’t be expected…of course, we aren’t blind, we can see for ourselves what the reality is. as well, we understand the code. when jack says bosh is ‘tired,’ what he’s really ’saying’ is, ‘i can’t believe he’s pulling a vince cahtah…i feel like such a douche for being on his cock all these years.’
and kudos to the fans…as pissed as i was about the continued retarded booing of wince, it was music to my ears to hear the booing.
i can’t even be bothered to put in the effort to talk about the game, since they didn’t seem to feel the need to put any effort into playing it. at this point, i want them to lose, to be humiliated, ’cause it’s the only way fucktard upstairs is gonna make a move. not that a move would help, ’cause they have nothing of value they can trade, but i’m just tired of hating this group of limp-dicks. in a way, i feel sorry for them…most of the team are bench players at best being asked to fill a role that they’re simply unable to do.
oh, thank fuck we got rid of smitch.
but at least jawai gets to start practicing. should only be 2, maybe 3 years until he’s ready to contribute.
i’m curious…he was out with a heart abnormality, right? have they checked the rest of the team? ’cause there seems to be a hole lot of other guys with some kind of abnormality with their heart…as in, it’s missing.
i’m a grizzlies fan now.
Have any of you noticed Bosh plays like he is gay.. I dont know if you guys ever played with a tall gay guy.. I have at the gym.. Dunk hard but prances around like he shit his pants..
The lack of actual basketball acumen on display Here & Now, in Raptorville, by some “Raptors fans” is most intriguing.
First. You couldn’t read the tea leaves correctly in the summer.
Second. You thought 3-0 meant something of value.
Third. You thought Sam Mitchell was part of the problem and deserved to get fired.
Fourth. You thought Jay Triano was part of the solution to the problem.
Fifth. Now … you think this team sucks.
Sixth. You think making wholesale changes via trades is the solution.
Seventh. You think you understand “How the game works in the NBA“.
Eighth. You think booing this team now is part of the solution to the problem.
Nineth. You think venting, cursing and name-calling is part of the solution to the problem.
Tenth. You really don’t know very much about elite level basketball in the first place.
What Dave Feschuk wrote yesterday is a good place for you start … when reviewing accurately what’s actually happened to the Raptors since the days when Glen Grunwald was running things on the hoops side of MLSE.
Until you improve your basketball acumen, however … it’s the equivalent of asking an ignorant, uneducated person to provide their opinion on something which looks like this.
What you’re most likely going to get back in return simply isn’t worth very much in the first place.
listen, you are all entitled to your opinions about how a guy plays or competes- but please,enough with the crazy language. If you say a four letter word every now and then because you are upset, thats cool- but there is no need to drop serious f-bombs, explicit sexual imagery, or use derogatory terms.
seriously. its embarrassing.
I’m glad someone else is frustrated with Bosh too. The effort hasn’t been there since Triano took over. He’s been good for us but is he a maxout player? Do you win a Championship with Bosh as your best player? He’s either scared or tired or both, but he has to find something somewhere and start playing again.
Dwyane Wade and Chris bosh make the same amount and both free agents next year.. Can we do a trade please.. Thank you
“He’s very enthusiastic about getting the ball to the top of the key but then loses the motivation to go any further, instead he’ll pull back and do a couple meaningless dribbles before passing it to someone on the perimeter or dumping it precariously into the low-post.” Someone explain to me why he does that? “Jose’s putting on the breaks at the three-point line” What is that crap? Seriously.
“Also, since when did Jack Armstrong become an apologist for every single Raptor out there? I used to love this guy’s honesty and straight-up analysis but he’s become worse than Chuck Swirsky lately.” No doubt, I’ve lost all respect for this clown. I listen to the games on mute, but since I wanted to watch A REAL game with REAL teams (atl-bst) I was switching back and forth and a few times had to listen to his bs. The best part is how they both talk about the Raps as the second coming of the Bulls during the 1st quarter and then end up apologizing for the last 3. What a bunch of Andiamos.
yertu, 4-4? Really? And you are feeling sorry for a bunch of gutless, lazy ass millionaires? Reeeaally?
JohnnySlash, your dealer must be a rich rich man. Next year this will be a dominating team? WTF are you on?
as for Bosh- the guy has hit a wall. things arent working out right now, but that doesnt mean he sucks. This whole team is seriously underachieving right now. Are they headed for the lottery instead of the playoffs? Sure looks like it right now. BUT, there is still more than enough time for the season to turn around. The question is, will Colangelo make the moves?
First off, he needs tp bring in a geit coach with a focus on D, like a Van Gundy. No disrespect to Triano bu this team needs a proven coach to get up in their face- and they need to believe in the direction of the team. If Im Bosh, even if Triano is my friend- I cant feel like the organization is committed to winning if it fires Mitchell and replaces him a guy with no NBA experience. WE are not an expansion team anymore. Its time to hire a real coach.
After that, the roster does need a bit of tweaking. At first I would have argued that it was ok as it is- but now it just feels like the mood around this team is NOT good and they would probably be better served by making a move and changing the focus of this team. Who they trade? well, thats debatable. I know many of you feel strongly about guys like Kapono, or Moon, or Bosh, or Andrea- the point is- it doesnt matter who they deal BUT they have to deal someone AND SOON.
even then, there is still a chance this season is lost- but its not too late to save it- that is of course, if BC has the onions.
phdsteve, do you not understand BC does not want a D minded coach? And the attempt to turn the season around has been made with the firing of Sam. KAPUT. Dunzo. Game over. See you next year.
Bosh has hit a wall? What wall, man? Do you know how many other players played in the Olympics? How many of them are riding that excuse train? NONE, that’s how many. Please, spare me. The guy has mailed it in and checked out. Period.
And Arse, the JO praise needs to slow down. I don’t care how many points he gets, the guy misses more 3 foot jumpers then I would three-pointers in a pitch dark gym with sunglasses on.
We have all read about the Euro coach El torre (spelling) whose name has been bantered about….what I found funny was that one analyst said that he would have to learn the “nba game”….fuck thats all we need another individual needing on the job training…actually he would fit right in with this crew.
Adam,
If Sam Mitchell was still the coach of this team, right now … this type of anti-Chris Bosh nonsense simply would not be happening.
As someone who played in the League for 13 years, Sam would say the absolute truth … which is something that most “Raptors fans” do not understand about either their own team or the League, in general …
“This is how it works, in the NBA. It’s a tough league. There is real talent everywhere you look [including on our own team]. There are nights you make shots, and there are nights you don’t. Either way, what you’ve got to do is just keeping working your way through it. We’ve been through tough times before and come through it together. We’ll come through this, too, eventually. What we’ve got to do here is stick together … and find THE ANSWER to the riddle at-hand. Getting angry isn’t the way to go. Finding THE ANSWER from within is. There are different ways to play this game. This is the way WE PLAY. This is WHO we are, right now. Our level of athleticism isn’t quite where it needs to be, from #1-14, in order to compete night-in and night-out right now; but we can get better. Our level of basketball intelligence isn’t quite where it needs to be, from #1-14, in order to compete night-in and night-out right now; but we can get better. It’s my job to coach the team. It’s your job to be a reporter, or a fan, or the President/GM, or a player, etc. You do your job, first and foremost; and, I’ll do mine. The League isn’t a place for softies, but … understand, plain and simple … basketball ain’t hockey … and, if YOU THINK IT IS then you best spend your most valuable time at/on the rink. This is the NBA, people … and, This is How it happens to work in this League. We just got to stick together, work our way through it … and make some more shats. That’s the only answer. It’s a jumpshot League and until we start making more shats we are going to struggle, like this. First comes Defense. Second comes Rebounding. Third comes Team Offense. That’s how it works in THIS LEAGUE.”
- Sam Mitchell [former coach, Toronto Raptors]
Yes, indeed … it is going to be an interesting season ahead, in Raptorville. : )
And who is Brandon Bosh, btw? : )
Bosh has not hit a wall.
Neither has Bosh mailed it in.
If you believe either of those two excuses then you do not understand How the NBA game works, yet.
It’s a League predicated on individual match-ups and mismatches … within a collective team concept. Period.
Bosh is a team player.
Put Bosh in the right situations more frequently than not … and he will come through for his team, e.g. with a rebound, or a defensive rotation, or a blocked shot, or a solid pass, or a made FT, or a driving layup, or a made J, etc., etc., etc. …
But you’ve got to be able to recognize and comprehend … which involves “seeing” and “listening” with acuity … what the right situations are in the first place.
If you can’t do THIS … then you are effectively lost in woods with no trail of popcorn to help find your way home. : (
flux – at BEST, they could go 4-4 in their next 8.
OKC – w
SAS – l
LAC – w
SAC – w
POR – l
GS – w
Den – l
HOU – l
they *should* be able to win those games. do i have confidence they will? F*-no. i’d be surprised if they beat OKC tomorrow. of course, they do tend to get up for weaker teams…but as arse said, seattle game ‘em a beatdown last year. but they aren’t going winless the rest of the way. so maybe 3-5 (or 2-6) is more realistic. but that’s not best-case.
phd,
Making a move right now … is a sucker’s play. Plain and simple.
If Colangelo is really someone who knows what he’s doing, as a TOP NOTCH NBA GM, then he’ll sit tight, for the time being.
On the other hand, if he really isn’t a TOP NOTCH NBA GM, then what he’ll do instead is pull the trigger on yet another BAD DEAL … like:
i. The J-Kidd situation, in Phoenix;
ii. The Joe Johnson situation, in Phoenix;
iii. The Hoffa Araujo situation, in Toronto;
iv. The Charlie Villanueva situation, in Toronto; and,
v. The TJ Ford situation, in Toronto;
not to mention the host of other poor free agent signings which have happened here since Feb/2006.
Only chumps would deal right now … not actual wise-guys. : )
I would love for them to go 4-4 on this road trip. But I doubt that will happen 3-5 is much more likely 2-6 or 1-7 and BC needs to trade Bargs/Calderon/Filler for some players.
Khandor, I hear ya, but he sure isn’t playing inspiring basketball right now, and he def. displays body language that communicates that he doesn’t care. That’s (probably just) my perception. And now he’s “beefing” with the fans. Great.
yertu, why is it inconceivable they will go winless? Camby will outrebound the entire team by himself, by all accounts. Morrow will have a career night against us, and have you seen the rest of the GS roster? Take your pick..c’mon.. we are not winning that game. Mikki Moore will make Bosh pee on the court.. unless something goes very wrong for any of those team, it’s very likely they go 0-8.
flux – it’s not ‘inconceivable’ they go winless over the next eight – of course, i never said it was. i do think it’s improbable.
and i said winless ‘the rest of the way.’ as in ’season.’ they have to win some games, and the only teams they’ve shown an ability to beat are teams that are even worse than they are (and there are fast becoming fewer & fewer of those). four of the teams they play in the next eight are, in fact, ‘worse’ than them. of course, playing on the road, out west, has never been easy for them, so for sure they could go winless, or 1-7, 2-6, etc. nothing’s impossible with this team…outside of holding a lead, of course.
Yertu, I see. Yeah, miracles do happen, some they may win some games. Not so sure about teams worse then them, maybe their records, but these are teams in the West after all, that have (much) better talent on their roster then the Raptors. And every team is getting up to play us because they see us as a wounded animal they can get a easy win on. Fun times.
Flux,
IMO, his “beef” with the fans, in this instance, is legitimate.
The booing last night was indicative of an uninformed basketball audience.
The booing SHOULD have happened in the summer, when this roster was announced … and, then, in the pre-season, when Bryan Colangelo had the audacity to suggest that this was THE MOST TALENTED team he had put together so far for the Raptors.
Booing when the team is down by 3 points, at home, to the Mavericks … and in a rut, missing jumpshot after jumpshot … is nothing else but simple ignorance.
================================
When the Raptors’ fanbase turned on Wince Carter … it was the second step in the eventual mess that’s on display right now.
Do THAT again, in this instance, with Chris Bosh … and the results will be similar.
================================
In general, Raptors fans NEED to spend more time & energy understanding how the NBA game actually works and less time listening to the wrong voices in the maddening crowd. : )
Here’s a simple place to start.
Jermaine O’Neal was identified by Larry Bird as being part of the problem with the Pacers for the last few seasons.
Now, he comes to Toronto and a team that was 41-41 last season is sitting at 10-15, on Dec 18, 2008.
Some mis-guided Raptors fans might think that what Jermaine O’Neal has done, thus far, on and off the court, has been a positive for this team, on the whole … but, actually, they would be 100% incorrect in that specific assessment.
Jermaine O’Neal is NOW part of the problem with the Raptors.
JO is not Rasho Nesterovic.
This team won 47 games two years ago with Chris Bosh as the starting Center.
Then it won 41 games last season with Chris Bosh as the starting Center … despite the deteriorating situation with TJ Ford and no Jorge Garbajosa.
Right now, however, it is sitting at 10-15 with Jermaine O’Neal as the starting Center.
It’s not rocket science, by any stretch of the imagination but, unless you can identify correctly what the problems are in the first place, the solutions you come up will lead nowhere productive fast.
Khandor, they did seem to only be booing when rebound where being given up. I could be wrong, and whatever that means.
Sure, it may not be legit. I wasn’t saying it was or wasn’t. My point was, regardless of legitimacy, he should have said something else. Say, like, I understand their frustration, we are all frustrated etc, we are in this together. Instead he choose to “criticize” them for doing it. Agreed, and was going to say this earlier, this will not end well. Whether people want to see it or not, his displeasure with the organization, fans and city is growing, and IMO the losses will only secure his exit. At this point, it’s probably for the best for both parties. It’s been long enough, I wouldn’t blame him for wanting a change of scenery. No one wants to be Shareef, after all.
A JO fan I am not, you know that, I have no idea why people are all over his jock for putting up numbers in losses and missing buckets when they are needed the most. Guess you gotta praise someone.
wasn’t part of the reason for the booing precisely that ‘rut?’ and missing jumpshot after jumpshot, after stating that they knew they had to drive the ball, get to the hoop, show some intensity & aggresiveness? to many, they simply settled for jumpers. it’s too much to put it on one guy’s shoulders, but i think i mentioned this the other day…when bosh settles for jumpers, it sends the message that it’s ok for everyone else to do so as well, and they all seemed more than willing to oblige. of course, if the shots are falling, it’s another story, but they weren’t, and the lack of motivation to TRY anything else is what caused the booing. it’s like they notice the hole in the canoe, the water flooding in, but keep paddling for the middle of the lake. this isn’t some new phenomenon, and the fans have actually been much more patient over the last month than the team has probably deserved.
if you need the crowd to show unfettered enthusiasm in order to find the motivation to compete, well, you probably don’t have the mental fortitude to be a pro athlete in the first place. or at least a leader of men. y’see, a true leader would’ve looked his troops in the eye, and said, ‘listen hard. they see it. they see that we’re not bringing it. they see that we’re not doing the things we said we were going to do, that we MUST do. this is our house, and we’re letting another team walk over us. AGAIN. look over at their bench. they’re laughing at us. in our house. we all need to have deep long look within ourselves, and summon the will to compete on every possession like it MEANS something. we’re embarrassing our fans, but even worse, we’re embarrassing ourselves. no one’s gonna fix it for us, we can only do it ourselves. it starts with me, i have to be a better leader. i hear this crowd, and it tells me that they care. they’ve shown they can live with losses if we compete hard, but they can’t accept us not giving 100% effort…and neither can we.’
Amare Stoudemire and Nash.. I think we should of had these two playing for Toronto.. As of now I am a Suns fan.. Just cause of these two ..
yertu,
“settling for jumpshots” is a meaningless phrase, in the NBA game.
The NBA is a jumpshot League.
The shots that Dirk hit last night the 2nd half … that put the nails in the coffin … were, IN FACT, jumpshots.
Those who repeat a simple phrase, like that one, to describe the current situation with this team, simply do not know what they are talking about.
JO is definitely to blame. there really can’t be any other explanation. he’s the only significant addition, and because of him, they lost a bulk of what propelled them to a sterling .500 record & embarrassing 1st round exit last year. it couldn’t have anything to do with;
a) jose playing below expectations (admit it, it’s true);
b) moon having a substantial step back from last year;
c) AP playing like the old man he is;
d) getting less than decent play out of their backup PGs;
e) getting no consistency from kapono or graham (until lately, and even then…) or, for the most part, hump;
f) bosh mailing in the last few weeks & playing like he wants to be traded;
g) vegetable lasagna playing like a cold, moldy plate of vegetable lasagna for a good chunk of the season.
this fiasco lies entirely with JO. he’s not exceeding expectations (merely meeting them), so yes, the blame most definitely falls with him. no one else.
Long time reader, first time poster.
Arse, excellent job on the site overall. You got some good writers here and this space should be a daily stop for all Raptor fans. The frustration has started to boil over and Bosh either needs to be traded or Colangelo needs to get him help. He’s not good enough to do it alone and Colangelo needs to either get another player of his caliber or someone above him to achieve anything worthwhile. If we keep playing like this he’s going to catch the first flight out of here when his contract ends up. The other option is to trade him for young players while his value is high, I don’t like this option because even though he’s not a superstar he’s still a good player. The dumbest thing you can do is take khandor’s advice and do nothing.
khandor, where were you during our modest 2 game win streak? You’re usually all over the comment section but as soon as the team wins a couple games, you don’t show your face? You’re the type of “fan” that roots against his team because you enjoy criticizing them. Stop pointing out the 3 point lead the Mavs had when we started booing. You don’t mention that it was a 16 point swing from the first quarter which ended up being a 26 point. I’m a season ticket holder and reserve the right to boo when I feel the team is not giving effort or playing with heart.
I was booing in the summer when we signed Adams, Solomon and let Delfino walk and I’m booing now. I cheered when Damon was here, when VC was here and welcomed T-Mac at the airport. Some of the stuff you say is so off-base that I wonder why they don’t just delete your comments…JO is a problem with the Raps? Maybe his salary, but his on-court play has been solid. This team might have won 47 games two years ago but that was two years ago when the Atlantic sucked and three teams at or below 500 made the playoffs and we got dominated by NJ. You want to follow that formula to success? Be my guest.
One more thing, Dirk taking a 18 footer is entirely different than Bosh taking an 18 footer. If you don’t see the difference there then you’re an idiot. Simple.
I managed to score 2nd row seats for this game and can safely say that Toronto fans are fucking awful. No basketball IQ. Really? You’re booing a player for missing a free throw?
Flux: I agree with you here; sure, Bosh may not be put in the greatest positions to help the raps right now, but he absolutely needs to bring more to this team than he did last night. God that was embarrassing.
khan – how would you describe the raptors offense in the 3rd & 4th Q’s? what did they do, if it wasn’t ’settle for jumpshots?’ how can that possibly be a meaningless phrase, when it describes what was happening, not just in this game, but in most games recently?
yeah, dirk, jet et al doing what they’re best at is, i’m sure, not in the mav’s gameplan at all.
kat – i’d debate that the crowd was solely booing a missed FT…i believe it was because of the continued settling for jumpers, poor rebounding, late switches/rotations, etc. that culminated in a collective boiling over of frustrations…i mean, this was the 3rd straight home game in which a 1st half lead was turned, effortless, it seems, into a defecit.
i was thinking about how large a halftime lead the raps would have to have in order to feel comfortable they’d win.
i settled on 38.
Skoola,you just schooled Khandor !!!!
Is this for real? Are the JO supporters really this much off base? OK, I am not doing this for you.. but you really need to look at his production and see how it affects wins and losses and how it contributes to the team.
Skoola – thanks. I think you hit it on the head here:
“Bosh either needs to be traded or Colangelo needs to get him help. He’s not good enough to do it alone and Colangelo needs to either get another player of his caliber or someone above him to achieve anything worthwhile. If we keep playing like this he’s going to catch the first flight out of here when his contract ends up. The other option is to trade him for young players while his value is high, I don’t like this option because even though he’s not a superstar he’s still a good player.”
Also khandor, stop splitting hairs. Dirk facing up to take a J on Bosh is different than Bosh taking a J on him. Dirk’s main advantage over any defender is his high-arching smooth jumper and he takes advantage of it. Bosh’s advantage over other 4/5’s is his quickness and he doesn’t take advantage of it and “settles” for a jumper. This ain’t rocket science, go ahead, go off on how only you understand the game. In the NBA. In the elite level. In the league…and everybody else here is jackass.
As for the booing, deal with it. Teams get booed when they do dumb things and play stupid on the court. If the Raptors were down 25 but played hard and proper, nobody would boo. I even heard a mild boo when Calderon raced up the court and halted at the 3-pt line, that was a first. Do ball fans in TO like basketball IQ? Probably, but that’s got nothing to do with booing. The Knicks got booed mercilessly all last season, does that mean their fans are a bunch of twats? No.
Read what I actually wrote; not what you might think it said.
this fiasco lies entirely with JO. he’s not exceeding expectations (merely meeting them), so yes, the blame most definitely falls with him. no one else.
I said it was a a good place to start.
Just in case you need it, this is what the word “start” means. : )
——————————————-
a) jose playing below expectations (admit it, it’s true); … depends on whose expectations you’re talking about, because so far he’s not playing below the expectations I had for him
b) moon having a substantial step back from last year; … Moon hasn’t stepped back at all … fact is, he’s improved his skill set since last season
c) AP playing like the old man he is; … has always been a back-up calibre player in the NBA, at least, for a legit high-end team
d) getting less than decent play out of their backup PGs; … which should have been expected given the playing backgrounds & abilities of Solomon & Ukic
e) getting no consistency from kapono or graham (until lately, and even then…) or, for the most part, hump; … Graham is beginning to show what I told you he could do, if given the chance, over at “From Deep” … remember? Humphries is in a similar boat. You don’t want to believe that what I write is accurate, that’s your business. It’s a free world, my friend. : ) This team would be a lot better off starting Calderon-Moon-Graham-Humphries-Bosh, than it is righ now … giving those minutes, in those roles, to O’Neal and Parker/Kapono
f) bosh mailing in the last few weeks & playing like he wants to be traded; … your assessment of who CB4 is … as a player and a person … has consistently been wrong
g) vegetable lasagna playing like a cold, moldy plate of vegetable lasagna for a good chunk of the season. … which is what should have been expected of him given his playing background & ability
Looking and Seeing are two vastly different things.
Arsenalist,
1. Dave, for example, has a solid understanding of the game, IMO, even though we do not agree.
2. It isn’t splitting hairs at all. What it is … is being specific. Those who understand THIS game have solid handle on the NEED for specificity. Those who do not, don’t. It’s as simple as that. What you wrote is incorrect about both Dirk Nowitzki and Chris Bosh … but to explain it to you, in detail, would only be considered as more “splitting hairs” … so I won’t bother going down THAT specific road.
3. The Knicks fans would not have booed last season when their team was trailing the Mavs by 3 points, in the 2nd half, with the eventual outcome still in doubt. Booing in THAT specific situation … is simple ignorance. Chris Bosh is 100% right … and you, who I have a great deal of respect for, just happen to be 100% wrong, in this regard.
I’m sure some won’t even know where to look so:
In 22 games:
when JO’s game score is above 10 ( 9 games) the Raps are 2-7.
when JO’s game score is below 10 (13 games) the Raps are 6-7.
Then you got 3 games, where without him, the Raps are 2 – 1 (loss @ LAL)
Draw your own conclusions.
IMO, this guy does not contribute wins. Period.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pgl.cgi?player=onealje01&year=2009
Hmm, after seeing these dudes in Ottawa during their training camp it was evident early on that this team was going to struggle. the same questions that were asked in training camp still havent been addressed, back-up pg, andrea bargnani, jermain o’neal and the list goes on and on. Another thing that i noticed was the amount of kneepads on the raps front line, usually thats a sign, just ask Patrick Ewing! Just saying!
Well done, Khandor.
Boo if a team is down by 20 at the end of one and never really shows effort.
This fan base is full of Fan listeners and RealGM jockers and it’s pretty sad. Booing the lack of rebounding because the media is making a big stink about it now is crazy. It’s been an issue for a while.
You want to do something constructive? Quit your pissing about TSN2 and tell management how you feel about the team on the floor. Season ticket holders walked away at the end of last season in record numbers. Time for the casual supporter to possibly do the same.
I look at the team right now and it disgusts me. What other team consistently blows double-digit leads? What other team doesn’t man up when the other team starts to make a run? The NBA to me seems like a game of runs, the raps are capable of just one, they build a nice 12 point lead and lose it all.
I look at the roster and it disgusts me. This team has had 4 top ten picks in the last 6 years, with one first overall pick! If that won’t give you a foundation I dont know what can. What did we get from them? araujo, bargnani, charlie v and bosh. This is the BIGGEST problem with the team. We cannot draft well. In the deepest draft since 87, we get the good play with no heart (pardon the jawai), we pick aruajo 8th with a projected top-three pick sitting there waiting for us. We choose bargnani, the unknown italian, over roy, gay, altridge even thomas. This is embarrassing, we have such a poor drafting record, the last solid pick I remember the raptors making was mo pete. The other disaster with this team is the development coaching. Maybe I am wrong and all of these players would be solid picks if they played somewhere else because their coach would develop them properly and fit them in the correct role. Look at Sloan and Milscap, Jackson with bynum and ariza, dallas with howard, i could go on forever, these we all late picks but they were developed properly. I am sick of the lack of desire and lack of all around skills our players have.
And I am tired of people saying crap that we need to tank this season to get a top-5 pick. As a said before we are shit are drafting, it doesnt matter where we pick. Even at the 13-17 range there are tons of great players to choose. Look at granger, he dropped 41 yesterday. I just wished we can learn how to draft and develop, even just to lay a base foundation for this team.
Fluxland….you preach….me choir.
I agree with Bosh’s not-franchiseness.
I dont mean to ruin the anger but someething you said was really funny.
“Dominating the G spot.” :P
Arse,
You know I love the site, but lately it seems the level of discussion is dropping. Maybe its because of the frustration around the losses, but I think we are reaching new lows with some of the posts. I dont even understand what some people are saying or if there is a point to their ramblings.
I was at the game last night, and thought the booing was out of line. I was as frustrated as many but to Khandor’s point, the timing was poor. We blew a lead (surprise), but we needed to support the team and try and get some energy back into the building to try and help get them back into it. I am no apologist, and if the game got out of hand and the effort was lacking, then I would have added my voice to the chorus of boos, but I thought the timing was wrong as the game was close and still winnable.
I also agree with Khandor that Bosh isn’t being put in situations where he is in favorable match ups with opponent players. He’s unable to play to his strengths because of who he’s matched up against, which is something that can be improved through effective coaching. He’s a guy who’s game is built of a jump shot, thats not something new. He uses the shot as a set up for bulk of the rest of his moves. If he’s not in a position to exploit it against players he can either shoot over or beat off the dribble, guess what, he’ll live and die off of how effective he’s shooting the ball.
I agree that blowing up this team would be a mistake as we need to build around a few core players. I was hoping it would be Bosh, Calderone and Barganani, but Bargnani has been a disappointment. All of you guys who think that blowing this up and making big trades are following the leaf script and looks what thats gotten us. I dont like losing but I also recognize that Rome wasnt built in a day.
AltRaps – OK, I’m with you on booing when the team shows no effort and is down by 20 at the end of the first quarter but when a player shows no effort for the first three quarters, he deserves to get booed too. Nobody’s brought this up yet but the fans weren’t booing the team, they were booing specific players, namely Bosh and at times Calderon (after that glorious airball). I think it was very obvious what they thought of Bosh’s performance last night and it spilled over when Dirk started heating up and Bosh remained passive. Sorry, can’t blame them, they were told we have a superstar and paid good money to see him perform, when it turns out to be a farce they have a right to be pissed.
Dino Gunner, good point on tanking. I have no faith in BC’s drafting and there’s zero guarantee that we’ll get anything of value in the draft even if we pick high. Back out the part about Charlie V and I’m with you on how we’ve screwed up in the draft, he was a good talent to take at the position. 90% of Raptors fans wanted Gerald Green with that pick.
Err, really khandor?
Don’t you think the booing when down by 3 points was a culmination of the double-digit lead that was squandered, yet again, on home court? Or maybe even the house of brick that was built by everyone’s jumpshot post first quarter? (Andrea, anyone?)
Is the crowd ‘ignorant’ or were you vacationing in Happyland for the previous ten games?
Toronto fans cheer hella-loud when things are going well and hella-loud when things aren’t. It’s called passion, for better or worse. Maybe if the players displayed some of that, we’d have a better on-court product. Or we can have pulseless fans like the Nets.
But hey, i guess when the summer comes around and the arena is empty and the players are back home, you can boo in your room so that everyone in the organization hears your displeasure.
DG, of course the frustration will result in ramblings. We are after all human and support the team with all we’ve got. You should check out celticsblog.com in the year they won 24 games, it’s got a very different feel than last year.
For those of you who are offended by the language in the post, I apologize but that’s what happens when you write a 2AM post after a shitty loss. Pretty soon we got to clean the articles up completely so you won’t have to suffer through this for too long.
skoola,
What would you have liked me to say during the two game winning streak?
* That they were about to lose 3 games in a row.
* That the improvements they were making were good but were not going to fix the problems this team has.
* That the fanbase, which includes you … is ignorant about how the NBA game works.
* That chickens eventually come home to roost.
* That a “force baseline/sideline” defensive system in the NBA is no better and no worse than a “force middle” defensive system and that Bryan Colangelo is blowing smoke out his ears telling you that THIS is going to fix the problem with this team, long term.
* That the wins over Indiana and New Jersey came about, respectively, because of the Closing Unit the Raptors used in Game 1 and the atrocious shooting of their Opponent in Game 2, not because of the coaching change, the change in defensive philosophy and the improved play of Jason Kapono, etc.
* That Chris Bosh is a team player; is not frustrated; hasn’t mailed it in; is doing the best he can to adapt to a changing environment; and has not decided to skip town, yet, for greener pastures, elsehere.
Is that what you would have preferred me to say during that two-game mini-winning streak … btw, 2 games is not a streak to me … instead of remaining silent, tending to my own concerns, not piling on at a time that the fanbase SHOULD be happy, and letting things play out in their own way, all in due time?
Of course, as a season ticket holder, you’re allowed to boo whenever you happen to fell like it. That’s your right.
My right is to disagree with your actions should I believe them to be refective of basketball ignorance.
As long as Jermaine O’Neal is the Starting Center for this team … do not expect to see Chris Bosh perform, as an individual player, in the way he’s done in the past, playing in this specific role for the Toronto Raptors. Me saying that, “the NBA is a jumpshot League” … has nothing to do with a perception that there’s no difference between the jumper that Dirk takes and makes on the regular vs the jumper that CB4 takes and misses all to frequently.
From Doug Smith’s blog today:
“Action: The booing.
Reaction: A good thing?
Probably not. It did start with the game very much in the balance and really is not the way for fans to get the team going, but sort of understandable.”
If being booed by the home fans for shooting 312 jumpers in a row doesn’t motivate you to do something differently following the boos, you probably aren’t meant for pro sports.
Mojo,
I LOL when I read it the first time through. : )
DG says:
“Bosh isn’t being put in situations where he is in favorable match ups with opponent players. He’s unable to play to his strengths because of who he’s matched up against, which is something that can be improved through effective coaching. ”
Sorry dude but I gotta call BS on this. Tell me what matchups Bosh can exploit and what “position” he needs to be in. Arsenalist mentioned a few players who have outplayed him this year but that list can be longer. Do you think Dallas has to work this hard to get Notitzki in “favorable matchups”? Nowitzki scored against JO, Bosh and Bargnani last night because he’s a great player and can improvise and doesn’t need everything to be diagramed to perfection and spoon-fed before he has a good game. That’s what star players do. Get technical on me DG, what positions and situations can Bosh specifically take advantage of?
DG, Re: #54: Thanks. IMO, you are another of the voices on-line who has a solid handle on the NBA game, and the Raptors’ situation, even though we do not always happen to agree with each other’s perspective. Agreeing or disagreeing is quite meaningless. What counts is what is actually being said. That alone has value on-line.
Atl, I know how you feel, bro. We’ve been on the “Jose is not an All Star and Gimpy set the franchise back a decade” train since it left the station in October. But my eyeballs are falling out of my head when I have to read how JO has been a blessing, a “solid contributor” and the rest of the team sux. And what do I know, I don’t have season tickets.
yertu,
re: #43
When Hakeem was in his heyday … almost every single time the ball was entered to him in the Low Post, what actually resulted was a jumpshot … not a dunk, not a drive, not a drop-step, not a power move of any kind … and the man is rightfully in the hall of fame, today, with 2 NBA titles to his credit.
Do you comprehend that Bill Walton’s great Portland team was predicated on:
1. His Defensive Rebounding prowess;
2. His Ability to Key the Break with terrific outlet passes;
3. His Ability to Pass the ball to his open teammates; and,
4. His Ability to Take and Make the TURN-AROUND JUMPSHOT.
The NBA is a jumpshot League.
If in doubt, please the exploits of …
Oscar Robertson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar [whose Sky Hook was, IN FACT, the greatest single jumpshot of ALL-TIME]
Larry Bird
Isiah Thomas
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Paul Pierce
all of whom had/has as their primary vehicle for scoring the ball in this league their jumpshot.
=====================
The difference comes in what type of jumpshots a team/player chooses to shoot on a regular basis, what type of jumpshots that team/player makes on a regular basis, and the system their team is running to generate those types of uncontested shot opportunities on a consistent basis … or not.
Arsenalist,
re: #55
Sorry, can’t blame them, they were told we have a superstar and paid good money to see him perform, when it turns out to be a farce they have a right to be pissed.
In which case … who the fans SHOULD BE booing is Bryan Colangelo, not Chris Bosh and not Jose Calderon.
I don’t think it would be unfair to use the expression ‘COMING APART AT THE SEAMS’.
What makes the expression especially true is that it most applies to our franchise player CB4. To me it all started with that gut wrenching loss to NJ back in November. Something changed after that game. CB4, for whatever reason, saddly has checked out. The team knows this and this explains a lot of what is happening on the court. That interview he gave last night confirmed this.
I will also say, I reamin confident in BC’s abilities. He is no Rob Babcock.
khandor, i think everyone deserves a boo right now, bc more so. bosh/calderon are not playing as well as they could be, and in bosh’s case, it seems like he’s thinking about spring break in cancun then how to get himself out of this slump he’s in.
uh, wasn’t dirk checking bosh for a good chunk of the game? isn’t dirk a pretty horrible defender? doesn’t bosh have the quicks to exploit that matchup?
flux – re. JO – i’m not trying to proclaim him a saviour, and i don’t think he’s THE key guy in whether the team will have success…he’s but a mere cog. but he’s also one of the few cogs who actually seems interested in competing. is he overly effective? not really. he’s an inefficient shooter, isn’t nearly the rebounder he once was, and is overly careless with the ball. but i still see him hustling, i still see him helping, i still see him TRYING. if JO’s presence is having such a negative impact on bosh, well, i think that’s on mr. bosh.
khan – at this point, i would give anything to see them go to the starting 5 you suggest…’cause as you point out, it can’t be any worse.
i’m curious what aspect of moon’s skill-set has improved? his perimeter game? shot? handle? rebounding? D?
RonaldSmackdonald,
I am going to guess that you haven’t yet taken the time to read what’s been written on my blog.
Toronto fans cheer hella-loud when things are going well and hella-loud when things aren’t. It’s called passion, for better or worse.
You might call it passion; but, I refer to it as something else.
Jeff Van Gundy had yet another gem in last night’s game which reminds me a little of what you’re actually saying there.
[paraphrasing]
“Pat Riley use to say that the most respect you could show an opponent was to show no respect at all. There’s a lot of truth in that.” – JVG
Passion without sensiblity, as well, is the equivalent of ignorance … in as much as disrespecting a worthy opponent by acting too respectfully isn’t smart at all. : )
It’s okay if you need to think about THAT one for a while.
khan – nice list. all guards, or guard-like, except for kareem, whose ‘jumpshot’ was usually taken from, what, 8-10 feet or closer.
‘Do you comprehend that Bill Walton’s great Portland team was predicated on:
1. His Defensive Rebounding prowess;
2. His Ability to Key the Break with terrific outlet passes;
3. His Ability to Pass the ball to his open teammates; and,
4. His Ability to Take and Make the TURN-AROUND JUMPSHOT.’
yes, i do comprehend this. i guess it’s just ironic that of those four things that that chip team was predicated upon, bosh has not shown to be competent in 2-4…but at least he’s a super dominant rebounder. whew. the team would be screwed otherwise.
Wow … what can I say that hasn’t been said already. Seems like the tribal honker fans are bifurcating .. for and against the hapless Raptors.
But in defence of Bargs and all other big young men attempting to play bball while trying to change their game on-the-job in the NBA no less.
Remember Bargs first season? He was a fan hero, tiptoeing beyond the 3-pt arc and lofting his 3-point bombs and not much more … but he did contribute to the best of his ability and even pulled out a few games for the Raptors with his shooting only.
Then in his second season he was asked to expand his game and start slashing to the basket and also pulling up and taking 18 foot jump shots. Barg obeyed instructions and tried to do what amounted to a completely new game against NBA defence. He was criticised as a #1 draft pick flop. He had sinus problems too, how unfortunate.
Now in his third season, he is showing flashes of success, but he is still inconsistent. What can you expect from somebody who was asked to change his game and then learn on the job. At his rate of learning, I would expect him to blossom in another couple of seasons … and that’s him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bargs left the Raps and went back to the Euroleague and become a big star player.
What perturbs me is that forum posters who do not live in a 7 foot body have no empathy and will never understand the physical and mental makeup of very tall young men. Some are highly skilled but most struggle.
I don’t know, Arse. Seemed to me (and evidently DG who was actually there)that the booing was situational and team directed. Wouldn’t be the first time, either. We can all conjure up who we think it was directed at and pick at our own scapegoat, but I would be utterly shocked if the majority of those boos were personally directed at Bosh and Jose. I think it was just another case of the casual fan listening to “what’s wrong with the Raps” and feeding off it. Just as you and I and any other intelligent supporter can say it’s stupid to continue to boo Vince, the media thrives off it, and the kids think it’s funny and cool.
I’m all about passion. I think it’s one of the reasons players should want to come here. That said, I still firmly believe that the antics of some fans weigh heavily in the decision of some.
FAQ – good points. but bargs has been playing professional ball for how many years now? i agree, adjusting to the NBA, adjusting to various positions, learning how to defend & rebound, all are big things. but the thing that we saw in his rookie year that’s been missing since is the confidence, that cold-blooded look in his eyes that suggested he had an ‘it’ quality about him. now, all i see in his eyes is emptiness, confusion. i hope he turns it around, but i’ve begun to fear the worst.
at a certain point, all the reasons for why he’s struggling just come across as excuses. if putting him in the ‘right’ position for him to succeed means the team struggles, then might as well try & see what happens. they certainly can’t expect to get much back for him, not that they’d dream of trading him anyway.
endo, Bill Russell averaged less than 15 pts per game in this League, and had no Low Post game to speak of, nor a consistent perimeter jumpshot. Yet … Would you classify him as a Superstar in the NBA?
To expect a player like Chris Bosh, with Chris Bosh’s strengths and weaknesses, to be something which he’s not … is to put the blame on the wrong person. There are different types of great players in this NBA game …e.g. Dennis Rodman was nothing like Michael Jordan, who were nothing like Sam Jones and Bill Russell, who were nothing like Jack Sikma and Gus Johnson, who were nothing like Isiah Thomas and Bill Laimbeer, who were nothing Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, etc., etc., etc.
Raps Fan, If Colangelo wanted to keep Bosh playing like he was before … then he should NOT have fired Sam Mitchell. Someone who isn’t trying in a NBA game does not put out the effort it takes to collect 9 rebounds and hoist up 20 shot attempts; nor does someone who isn’t playing well, in general, generate a 10:2 assist-to-turnover ratio. Effort by Bosh & Calderon is not the problem with this team, Here & Now.
Haha..I think it’s funny that people are starting to repeat the things I have been saying for years…except I said these things about Bosh et al even when we were winning….
This choking and mental weakness has been his main characteristic for most of his career… he was never a “franchise player” or a “superstar” and never will be//he is a ROBIN, not a BATMAN.
All this cretinous hero worship has dug the hole that Toronto is in..instead of understanding that Bosh is only a very good player who needs a full team around him with star players at the wing/guard positions, Toronto has proceeded as though he is a superstar who only needs complimentary players, like LeBron….
Toronto has created this monster by putting all its eggs in a basket with a big fat hole….
It’s easy to see why the moronic fans would make that mistake…but why in the fuck would Colangelo have not bolstered the team properly? Spending a third of the payroll on a player that really only duplicates what Bosh does is the fucking stupidest move ever….
I have said this would lead to a Pau in Memphis and Garnett in Minnesota type situation for 2 fucking years…and that is exactly where this team is going….he is the only asset they have…so either he goes for at least TWO STRONG PLAYERS…or they BLOW THE CAP and bring in two STARS like Boston did and recognize that HE is not going to carry a team…EVER.
Wow – again I agree with arrogant Khandor, the booing did not help when down by 3. Bosh’s comments were justified. Boo the shit outta them in the final two minutes, when game was outta hand – Boo them off the floor.
Cannot disagree that the team that hits their open jumpers usually win.
Colangelo is at a crossroads. I am not too sure if Bargnani and Bosh can co-exist on this team while both maximize their potential. A month ago I would of said Bosh is untouchable and Bargnani highly unlikely to be traded. Today, no-one is untouchable on this squad. Bosh would bring a higher return, and resolve the 2010 issue. One thing for sure is we will not compete for elite status this season or next. Does the overhaul start now?
yertu, re: #68 Your description of Jermaine O’Neal in that comment reminds me of a former Maple Leaf named Wendel Clark. Wendel was a great guy to cheer for and would have been a terrific role player on a Stanley Cup calibre-winning team, at an early point in his career, but … the unfortunate reality is such that if Wendel is the Top Gun on your team’s first line, during the latter half of his career, then your squad just isn’t very good, and having him fulfil THAT specific role is definitely part of your team’s PROBLEM, rather than a workable long term solution.
re: Moon. His perimeter shooting stroke has improved.
nunya, According to you …
Can you be a star player in the NBA if you cannot be expected to carry the load for your team’s offense coming down the stretch of a close game against a high end opponent? In my book you can.
If we can agree that Bosh’s real/actual strength, as a person and a player in the NBA, is not as a scorer … then, Can you see that he does indeed hold considerable value to a team as a different sort of Primary Building Block?
If he’s surrounded, as the Center, by the right collection of players, is Chris Bosh good enough in your judgment to be a key part of a team that can win a NBA title some day in the not too distant future? [e.g the next 10 years] In my book he is … and, so is Jose Calderon.
What it will depend upon is …
who the other 13 players are on the Raptors roster,
who the coaching staff is,
who the Support Staff is,
who the President/GM is, and
who the Owner is.
re: #64/55
Khandor,I hear you when you say maybe we should be booing B.C.instead of some of the players….do you think B.C. heard the boo’s,I think he did.
yertu, re: #70 Was Hakeem Olajuwon a guard to you. Was Elvin Hayes? Or, Jack Sikma? Or, Dave Cowens? Or, Bill Laimbeer? Or, Willis Reed?
it’s as bullshit to claim that the booing ‘didn’t help’ as it is to claim that cheering does.
if bosh, or any of the raps, had 1/8th of the heart, desire, determination of wendel clark, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. he was easy to cheer for because he was one of the few ’stars’ who cared more about the game than the fans, and showed it every night. i’m embarrassed that a class act like clarky’s been besmirched by being mentioned in raptor blog.
and i’m not much of a hockey fan, and i despise the leafs. when i was a kid growing up in saskatoon, i had the chance to meet wendel (he visited our school – one of my classmate’s father worked for the blades), so i ended up following his career.
d279,
Yes, I think Colangelo heard the boos … but, I do not think he is someone that:
1. Took those boos the right way; and/or,
2. Knows how to respond properly in a situation like this.
e.g. What he NEEDS to do right now … heading toward this road trip … is STAND UP in public on behalf of Bosh & Calderon, in the face of those booing fans, say that HE ACCEPTS FULL BLAME in this situation, that he has LET DOWN both CB4 & Jose, who were each depending on HIM to construct the type of roster it will take to build a championship-calibre team, in Toronto, and to apologise for the mess that he’s created Here & Now, which will need to be fixed over an extended period of time, moving forward from this point, and require the patience of this team’s two best players, plus the fanbase that has been mis-directed, thus far.
d279….the Raptors have been booed off the floor in the past. Look where BC has taken us. A .500 team last year and on pace for the lottery this year.
yertu,
The Maple Leafs won nothing of significance with Wendel Clark as the Top Gun on their team … and it doesn’t besmirch his character nor his reputation one bit, as a player or a person, to have his name mentioned here.
Jermaine O’Neal is in the latter half of his NBA career. He was once an All-Star. He is no longer. He is now an oft-injured former All-Star who should not be a Starting Center for a team in this league that has legit designs on going to the 2nd Round of the NBA playoffs, when that team also has Chris Bosh on its player roster. Period.
Bring him off the bench. Limit his minutes, and his touches on offense. Do what Popeye Jones suggested and give those minutes, instead, to a player like Kris Humphries. Or, even to Andrea Bargnani.
Instead of getting off to terrific starts and then gradually fizzling … save O’Neal for strategic insertion moments, as the game develops, and use him properly to off-set Chris Bosh.
etc., etc., etc.
yertu,
If you don’t think cheering/booing/positive-negative energy/etc. makes a difference, in the NBA game, you’re not paying close enough attention to the words of men like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc.
this is a nightmare… sometimes don’t you just feel like you’d be better of picking another team to support?
:( it’s just a heartbreaking year for us.
Khandor you need to stop with the condescending attitude like your word is the bible. I don’t care what you think and neither does anyone else. You annoy me to be honest
Anywho, Bosh has been shut down by almost every power forward in the League. Period. That has nothing to do with match ups or playing in the Olympics but he has checked himself out of the game mentally and emotionally and is now going with the motions. This is the reason why he cant match up. Any fan will see this and hence, the boos last night.
Our coach has nothing to do with why were a bad team. We were a bad team with Sam at the helm. We lost road trips with Sam at the Helm, we lost playoff rounds with Sam. We don’t have any talent on this team.
khandor
Dec 18, 2008 12:35 pm | Permalink
endo, Bill Russell averaged less than 15 pts per game in this League, and had no Low Post game to speak of, nor a consistent perimeter jumpshot. Yet … Would you classify him as a Superstar in the NBA?
To expect a player like Chris Bosh, with Chris Bosh’s strengths and weaknesses, to be something which he’s not … is to put the blame on the wrong person.
—————————
Why do you have a need to select a player from the 1950’s and compare him to Bosh?
Joe,
1. Whether what YOU say is annoying … is not the point, now, is it?
2. When you look at this list of results you should be able to see for yourself where Mr. Bosh’s match-up advantages are to be found.
October Opponent Result
Wed 29 @ Philadelphia W 95-84
Fri 31 vs Golden State W 112-108
November Opponent Result
Sat 01 @ Milwaukee W 91-87
Wed 05 vs Detroit L 93-100
Fri 07 @ Atlanta L 92-110
Sun 09 @ Charlotte W 89-79
Mon 10 @ Boston L 87-94
Wed 12 vs Philadelphia L 96-106
Sun 16 vs Miami W 107-96
Tue 18 @ Orlando L 90-103
Wed 19 @ Miami W 101-95
Fri 21 vs New Jersey L 127-129
Sun 23 vs Boston L 103-118
Wed 26 vs Charlotte W 93-86
Fri 28 vs Atlanta W 93-88
Sun 30 @ LA Lakers L 99-112
December Opponent Result
Tue 02 @ Denver L 93-132
Fri 05 @ Utah L 87-114
Sun 07 vs Portland L 97-98
Tue 09 @ Cleveland L 94-114
Wed 10 vs Indiana W 101-88
Fri 12 @ New Jersey W 101-79
Sun 14 vs New Orleans L 91-99
Mon 15 vs New Jersey L 87-94
Wed 17 vs Dallas L 86-96
Telling people that there not informed and that they need to read your blog to get the facts is arrogant. Your not qualified to write a blog, and your not qualified to tell people that there opinions are incorrect.
Mr Smartass.
Joe,
Bill Russell played into the 60’s.
In comparison with Bosh …
As a left-handed, under-sized Center, who was 6-9 and 220 lbs, without a well-developed Low Post game and no consistent perimeter jumpshot … but with sound character, a knack for rebounding and for shot-blocking, plus a terrific intellect, imagination, and sense of humour, etc., … I don’t know, exactly, he just seems like a decent fit to me. : )
Please stop comparing Bill “11 Championships” Russell to Chris Bosh, you’re losing credibility there. By the criteria in #90 half the scrubs in the NBA would qualify to be compared with Bill Russell. I’m also glad sense of humour and whatever “imagination” means is now being considered when selecting your franchise player.
I don’t even know what the point of #88 is…so you’re saying a favorable matchup for Chris Bosh is when he’s playing a bad team..yeah, I agree with you on that one, I guess.
I think this thread has given us all the joy it can possibly give. Locking this baby up.
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