Joe Johnson didn’t find things quite as easy this time around.We needed to win these last two games and we did, so credit to the team for getting the job done before hitting the tough schedule ahead. We split the four game homestand and show some defensive improvement from the NJ and Boston games. Bosh was excellent as he usually is and finally got some help from his mates – Jason Kapono dusting off the shooting hand for 16 points and Joey Graham chipping in with 11. In a five point affair where neither team cracked 95 points its always going to be the defense that wins you the game and its no different here. We won because we didn’t allow Atlanta’s guards to walk all over us and showed some pride by making a concerned effort in checking our man on the perimeter. We played well enough to win but that doesn’t mean the game wasn’t peppered with defensive mistakes and stretches of stagnant offense which nobody on the Raptors TV post-game seems to mention. If you didn’t know the score and were watching their coverage you’d think that we won this game by 25 points when the reality is that if a couple shots had gone the other way, things would’ve been different.
Chris Bosh is the well that we all drink from and if it ever went dry we’d starve to death and have our carcasses eaten by vultures. A day after Sam Mitchell says that he’s watching Bosh’s minutes, he plays 44 and every single one of them was needed. Fact is that our offense is entirely dependent on Bosh and unable to generate a clean shot with him on the bench. Every time we needed a hoop we went to Bosh and he gave us 30/10 points on 50% shooting (13-26). This is after he started 3-9 in the first half because of missing a shootaround due to a bad elevator in his building. He’s not just a cog in the Raptors wheel, he’s the rim, the tires, the bolts and the hub cap. Give him the ball in relatively good position and he’s going to get you points one way or another. With Josh Smith out it was left upto Zaza Pachulia to deal with Bosh and to his credit he stayed with CB4 for the first half but the second was an entirely different story as Bosh found both the mid-range and drive game which easily negotiated Zaza, Horford and Solomon Jones’ defense. He did most of his damange in the third quarter where he went 7-10 and turned a four point deficit into a four point lead heading into the fourth where we played just enough defense to come through.
One of the reasons we’ve had to rely on Bosh so much is because Jose Calderon has been a total flop for the past few games. I’ve never seen a PG have an 11:1 AST/TO ratio and still be accused of not creating for his teammates but that is the case. 90% of the time the first pass after the high pick’ n roll goes to Bosh who then decides what to do with the possession. Either he decides to take a jumper (AST Calderon), drive, or pass off to the perimeter for a bunch of “fake drives” which if they create space for Moon, Parker or Calderon result in a jumper and if they don’t, the ball goes back to Bosh who now has no other option but to take the shot. Fortunately for us Jason Kapono and Joey Graham gave us enough bench production to avoid a repeat of the Orlando game.
Down the stretch the Hawks had a couple very good looks which would’ve made it a one point game and put pressure on the Raptors offense to score. They missed and we never got tested. Calderon gave us a 6-pt cushion with 1:11 left after he drove for the first time all game. He’s trying to shoot himself out of a slump but everything’s rattling in and out. His game looks to be entirely perimeter oriented and the Calderon of the last two years that used to look to turn the corner for layups and drive ‘n kicks seems to have disappeared. Maybe it’s the hammy, I don’t know, but on the court he’s not the same player we expect him to be.
Defense won us the game and Parker, Hump, Graham and Bargnani deserve credit – in that order. Parker forced Joe Johnson to shoot 7-22 (1-9 3FG) by keeping him in front of him. JJ’s a great player and no doubt he blew past Parker once or twice a quarter but it wasn’t nearly the matador defense he had played earlier against him. Parker’s footwork was supreme and his hands were always ready to contest. Since Parker checked JJ, it meant that Calderon checked Bibby and the expected happened: Bibby lit him up for 24 on 9-14. Lucky for us Bibby missed a couple big late (open) jumpers which would’ve put an entirely different complexion on this game. Good Joey made another appearance and did what he does best – slash to the rim, play hard on defense and try to get some easy points. Nothing complicated or spectacular, just good use of his athleticism and hustle. Looking at him in the past two games you wonder why this guy gets into Sam’s doghouse so often. As bad as he can be at times there’s definitely enough ability in there to make sure he doesn’t get more than 1 DNPCD at a time. We’ll see.
Andrea Bargnani got a couple blocks and Kris Humphries brought the “Hump hustle” with 7 rebounds in 19 minutes and stayed true to the fact that he’s always in the top two in per 48 rebounding on the team. The turning point in the game was the start of the fourth quarter when Atlanta had Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby on the bench and the Raptors scored twice. By the time they returned the lead had gone from 4 to 10 and 6 of the points in that 8-2 run came from Graham and Hump. The Hawks never recovered.
This Raptors team will never blow anyone out. Their best hope is to play good collective team defense, count on Bosh’s scoring and hope at least two other players step up their scoring to give them a chance in the fourth quarter. Once you get there, grind it out. Here’s an interesting stat: The Raptors are 4-1 when a bench player scores at least 15 points. Bottom line seems to be that Bosh can’t do it alone and since Calderon and Parker are struggling to find their offense, we have to look for the bench to compensate. Jason Kapono stepped up and even took a couple jumpers which you don’t usually dare see him take. We’re used to seeing him protect his percentages and this is what Jack Armstrong thinks about that:
“I wish Jason Kapono never knew what his three point shooting percentage was…its not about your percentage, they need him aggressive and shooting and even if you miss some, its OK”
Good to see its not just us fans that are thinking in the same vein. Sherman Hamilton’s response to that statement was to say that in the days of contracts and numbers a player has to know what he’s shooting. Good points both ways although Jack’s is far more idealistic.
I love how Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson responded to the Toronto media asking questions about Chris Bosh’s performance and whether this was one of the best games Bosh has played. These questions are designed to incite positive responses from opposing players about the your team but they were having none of it and responded in short blurts, “I don’t worry about Chris Bosh” or “I follow the Atlanta Hawks”. Love the attitude.
Another reporter asked Joe Johnson an angled question about what the Raptors did to disrupt the Hawks tonight. After asking him to repeat the question and thinking about it for a while he says:
“Ummm….there’s really nothing special that happened during the game, they just gave a better effort than us down the stretch”.
That could be used as a succinct summary. We’ll know much more about the team over the next three games when they face quality opponents in the Lakers, Nuggets and Jazz, games for which Jermaine O’Neal should be ready to go. Beating the Bobcats and Hawks is nice but let’s get a quality win now.
Hassan Adams is the official bench cheerleader…Crowd chanting Joey Joey was nice…Solomon got in the game in the fourth (!) and didn’t ruin things…Moon went 3-6 on his jumpers…Bargnani’s block on Horford was nice…We were +10 in PINP, even on fast-breakpoints and only -3 on the rebounds…You can check out all the post-game interviews in the video section. I probably shouldn’t be doing the post-game recaps after watching a game at Philthy’s, my judgment is very Budy, Milllery and Heineky so if I missed any stuff, forgive me.
67 Raps
I thought Sam was giving Ukic a “block of games” to develop his stuff. Did I miss something? It’s interesting to see Toronto highlighting their “trade values”. Dec. 15th is fast approaching. Do they “highlight”, or do they try to win, they are not mutually inclusive?
The season just got interesting – Good Luck.
i dont mean to rain on anyones parade but this game was,typical.we had the hawks down hard and we allowed them to go on that massive run to make it a game.i would have liked to have seen sam take a couple early timeouts on their run before our lead dwindled to 4 and the hawks make a game out of it….this should have been a blowout.
Thanks again for the reporting…Sam must have caught Joey banging his wife or something,because ya he fucks up, just like the next guy,but shit he is the only guy I’ve seen with balls to take it to the hole.
On the JO subject,I wouldn’t rush him back for the west coast trip,why simply to get pummeled by LA’s 10 bigs…rest yoda,rest.
Funny, don’t see a link to and subsequent laughfest at the Bosh/Calderon hot potato play. Oh, it’s only comedy when TJ does it.. I see.
I am glad to see the Jose All Star talk has died down.
The simple fact is …
* This is a better basketball team without Jermaine O’Neal on the floor for 30 minutes a game.
* This is a better basketball team with Joey Graham, Jamario Moon, Kris Humphries & Andrea Bargnani getting the minutes played that usually go to Jermaine O’Neal.
* Jermaine O’Neal should be used as the 4th Big on this team, regardless of his $21 million salary … because THAT IS the role in which he is a best fit.
* This team is a .500 squad with Jermaine O’Neal playing major minutes, blocking shots, providing lane intimidation, getting double digit rebounds & double digit points … while it is now 2-0 when he doesn’t set foot on the court.
* This team is a better squad, as a group of 12 players, i.e. defensively, offensively and rebounding wise … when Jermaine O’Neal is in his street clothes.
* NBA Hoops is a 12-man game, with a variety of 5-man game sub sets … based on individual match-ups and mis-matches … during which it is not necessary to have 5 outstanding players on the court together at any one time but 5 players who compliment one another, in their strengths and weaknesses and the conceptual framework which works best for them versus their opponents on any given night.
* What most NBA observers and Raptors fans in general think they see and understand about this Raptors’ team is back-asswards and shows a lack of understanding re: the NBA game and how it actually works.
It takes a strong constitution to stand up and acknowledge that what you’ve thought about something for a long time has actually been incorrect/wrong.
If/when this team now goes on the road and loses the next three games … at the Lakers, Nuggets & Jazz … it will be interesting to see if how most NBA observers and Raptors fans in general react to that?
Option 1 – Wait and see, when JO gets back in the groove … this team is going to be dangerous, with its Twin Towers approach, and its deficiencies at the Wing positions;
or
Option 2 – Wait a sec … could it possibly be the case that the 2008-2009 version of the Toronto Raptors DID NOT NEED TO ACQUIRE A $21 MILLION PER YEAR PLAYER in exchange for TJ Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Maceo Baston, a flip-flop of 2008 Draft Picks [No. 17 for No. 21] … which cost them a shot at one of Roy Hibbert, CDR, Joey Dorsey, Luc Richard Mbah A Moute, etc., … plus Carlos Delfino [for this season] and Jorge Garbajosa [whose salary comes off the books next year] … in order to become a better basketball team this season, given the elevation of Jose Calderon to the full-time PG position and the growth & continuing maturation of players like Chris Bosh, Kris Humphries, Joey Graham, Jamario Moon, Andrea Bargnani and Roko Ukic … reflected by their ability to beat the teams they’re supposed to beat at home and on the road, lose to the teams they’re supposed to lose to on the road, and occasionally win a game at home versus the High End teams to which they’re supposed to lose … which is the next stage in the development of a still young NBA franchise that has had enough key elements in place for a number of years now to form the basis of a High End team in this League, if the people responsible for running their operation actually knew what they were doing in this regard? Could it possibly be a situation that? Hmmmmmmm …
“The proof of the pudding is in the eating.” – Anonymous
Nothing more, and nothing less … than that. : )
mmmmm, pudding *drools*
I am honestly disappointed with the way Calderon is playing. What he did tonight (and on other nights) is not All-star PG material, let alone top-tier PG material. A) He can’t hit a bucket – but that is not my biggest complaint. B) He either can’t or WON’T give the ball to other players. He is running a two man offense – or should I say a one man offense. He gives, no, he HANDS the ball to Bosh at the top of the key and then runs off somewhere for better or for worse. Play after play. No creating, no passing, no dynamism, no nothing. That is just like what TJ did for a while last year. Guys are just standing around waiting for the swing, with their hands up waiting for the ball and they end up staying there for the duration of the play.
Create, Jose, or are they paying you 9 million for that AST:TO ratio? Because the way Jose is abusing that statistic makes it laughable. It should only apply when the PG is cutting and throwing passes, instead of doing hand-offs.
Not bad bench play, nice to see the OG robo-joe hit the floor. Tough night for Bargs. He’ll be back.
Khandor…that was simple,I would fuckin hate to see complicated !!!
Khandor,
Disagree with your JO opinion. Funny there was no mention of us being better without JO when we lost to NJ and Boston. Keep picking your spots! Once again you write too much. I hope your goal is to hijack this site so readers can go to yours, and I hope you succeed.
Hey – Mike Bibby used to torch TJ as well. What can you say.
” Beating the Bobcats and Hawks is nice but let’s get a quality win now”
Have you seen who the Hawks have beaten this year? Stupid comment? Last night we beat a decent opponent.
“We’ll know much more about the team over the next three games when they face quality opponents in the Lakers, Nuggets and Jazz, games for which Jermaine O’Neal should be ready to go.”
We might well go 0-3 in the next stretch, we should definately be the underdogs in all 3. Doesn’t make us any better or worse than what we are. The comments that I expect for the next 3 games, blaming everyone and everything, the rhetoric from Khandor, who will probably blame it on JO being back. The fact is our next 3 opponents are better teams than us and we should not expect a successfull roadtrip. We will be playing deeper, more talented teams on their turf. Lets not lose our heads this upcoming week.
Atlanta has also lost 6 of their last 9, with the wins coming against Washington, Charlotte, Milwaukee by 4, 5, and 6 points. They were beaten handily by the Nets and Pacers. Stupid comment, Tinman? Orlando and New Orleans were nice wins, but we started 3-0 and many thought we were on the road to prosperity and wealth.
Good point. Was unaware.
no mention of Sam when we win: total team effort… if we lost, it would have been totally his fault… Raps fans (and bloggers) are becoming such a joke… Kapono doesn’t score: blame Sam… why doesn’t he get credit now for making him shoot? If you’re going to give credit to the players when they play well and win, then please give them equal blame if they play poorly and lose.
khandor: please stop with the JO posts… we all know where you stand… using 2-0 against ATL and CHA as evidence is weak and does not help prove your point. JO was brought in specifically after D Howard abused us in last years playoffs… JO played excellent against DH in the first meeting this year in case you forgot.
Tinman: keep posting dude… you and Dave seem to be the most sensible posters.
Isn’t it a waste of effort analyzing this mediocre bball team? Just sit back and enjoy NBA bball wherever it’s played.
Excerpts from today’s Hoopshype Rumours:
On Page 82 of the latest issue of ESPN The Magazine, there’s Colangelo openly telling our own Ric Bucher that he’s pursuing roster upgrades as we speak to make the team as strong as possible now, largely because Toronto wants to do everything possible to convince Chris Bosh that staying in Canada is Bosh’s best play when he becomes a free agent in that Summer of Twenty-Ten, which occasionally seems to get mentioned around here. “I’m a realist,” Colangelo says. “There are only three prize guys [in that free-agent class] and we’re trying to keep one of them. I’m in the market to do something.” ESPN.com
NBA front-office sources say that Colangelo covets two of the players he drafted in Phoenix — Miami’s Shawn Marion and the Suns’ Leandro Barbosa — but likely lacks the assets to trade for either one. More realistic targets, sources say, are Phoenix’s Boris Diaw, Chicago’s Andres Nocioni or Charlotte’s Gerald Wallace, all of whom possess contracts which stretch beyond the 2009-10 season, with cheaper but less inspiring alternatives (Houston’s Luther Head and Golden State’s Marco Belinelli) also available. It is nonetheless considered an inevitability in Toronto, as Colangelo ponders his wisest course, that two players whose last-year salaries weren’t high enough to make our adjacent top-20 list — Joey Graham ($2.4 million) and Colangelo favorite Anthony Parker ($4.6 million) — are virtual locks to be moved before the Feb. 19 trading deadline, as well as last season’s darling, Jamario Moon. Colangelo would prefer not to part with Parker, but the former Maccabi Tel-Aviv star’s expiring contract would appear to be the Raptors’ best trade chip. ESPN.com
Bryan Colangelo’s Raptors, as it turns out, are among the many teams, the Knicks and maybe-moving-to-Brooklyn Nets among them, projected to carry cap space in excess of $20 million in 2010. But don’t expect the GM to idly pass the time. “If there is a way to acquire players in advance of that (2010) free-agent season that would help us get to a better place now, then we’ll go ahead and make those decisions,” said Colangelo. “I’m not one to sit and wait.” Toronto Star
…………………
Now isn’t this interesting and forward-looking speculation?
The reason for this…
“He (Calderon)’s trying to shoot himself out of a slump but everything’s rattling in and out. His game looks to be entirely perimeter oriented and the Calderon of the last two years that used to look to turn the corner for layups and drive ‘n kicks seems to have disappeared. Maybe it’s the hammy, I don’t know, but on the court he’s not the same player we expect him to be.”
…I think is the fact that we’ve gone from a transition offense to a largely half-court offense. Jose was more likely to drive when other players around him were driving, but with the addition of O’Neal and the focus on a half-court set, he’s been doing what is asked of him… getting the ball to the bigs in the post. Jose’s lack of a transition game is a direct result of what Mitchell is asking him to do.
Spudz
http://eclectic-indulgence.blogspot.com
FAQ,
Let’s not omit this important part of the article from that ESPN the magazine that’s been floating around Raptor blogs for a few day right now.
“Of course, only Colangelo knows if the is just talking, a front office version of false hustle. Several GM’s say most owners are toying with fans by making them think they’re preparing to chase the Class of ‘10 when their real goal is just to cut costs. “It’s a good way to be cheap,” says a GM. “Pretending to do something.”
A salesman is always yapping, hoping to keep you distracted from what is really going on.
pakmacman, when a coach isn’t mentioned in an article its usually a good thing. Didn’t feel the need to single out Sam for praise, sorry. He did make sure Bosh got his touches and didn’t tie down Graham and Hump to the bench like he usually does so yeah, kudos for that. To me this team’s W/L record will be proportional to the defensive effort they put out, we’re not a gunning team anymore that’ll beat you by running up and down the floor and knock down 17 threes a game. If Sam can get that defensive effort out of the team I’ll be 65% happy with him, for the other 35% he just needs to be benign and not do anything to kill our chances of winning games – in other words, just do the common sense stuff (don’t double off of Ray Allen) and maybe a come up with two more creative go-to plays.
khandor, you can’t be serious when you say that going into the Lakers game we’ll have a better chance of winning without O’Neal? I see your point against not making the JO trade, its basically saying we should’ve drafted instead and used that money to acquire smaller pieces rather than gamble on O’Neal and take our time getting better and better. I agree with you on the drafting bit, giving up that #17 pick and not being aggressive in the second round is a highly questionable move. One of the big reasons the BC pulled the trigger on the trade is to give Bosh a reason to have hope in the franchise and show him that we’re willing to make moves to get better. I’m not sure I agree that if we had just used the pick to draft and relied on the “maturation” of Jose Calderon and Kris Humphries, it would’ve amounted to any more success that what we’re due now.
Richard, in the PG interview Sam said that he’s looking to give everybody playing time. I don’t think he’s ever going to just pick one PG and stick with him as much as we’d all like him to. They’re basically taking turns.
From the Star:
“We put in a lot of sets to run guys off screens to get the wings involved because the wings have been down here the last week or two,” said Kapono, who made six of 10 shots including two of four three-pointers and iced the game with two free throws with 16 seconds left.
Kapono, who logged 22 minutes and also dished out a pair of assists, was the beneficiary of some tweaking of the Toronto offence indeed. There was a bit more movement off screens as coach Sam Mitchell and his staff have been trying to find ways to make the sharpshooter a significant part of the offence.
“We’re trying to run some sets for him and we keep telling him, he’s got to shoot,” said Mitchell. “We just keep reminding him that if his man’s hands are down, he’s open, he’s that good of a shooter.”
——————————————-
Off-the-ball movement? You’re a genius Smitch! That’s only 3 years overdue…
pakmacman, very true. Sam deserved to be credited for different plays being run, getting Kap to shoot as opposed to, well, not, finding Bosh (I wonder, are those “plays” or just finding the man…hmmm), etc. He deserved the respect.
chutney, you are talking about the same team that ignores their coaches pleas to push the ball. The fact is, you can’t sit guys that aren’t producing or running plays, because we have no backups. We are talking about professional ballplayers. If Kapono has to be reminded that if he isn’t being guarded, he should shoot the ball, that speaks to his own IQ, not that of the coaching staff. Same as that horrible in-bounds play last night. 3 seconds were spent looking at the guy you wanted to pass to, but he was covered. Look somewhere else. It’s not rocket science.
Bargnani… he’s getting a crash course in the NBA the past 3 years.
1st Year- Just do Your Thang! We’ll see what you got! He Shoots and He Passes!
2nd Year- He hits the NBA Wall. THUD! Better work on your Post-Up, Rebounding and Box-Out.(and English)
3rd Year- Glimps of the Whole Package. Gotta cut down those fouls so you can get a rythym going!
I see constant improvement from this guy. Plays SF, PF & C. He’s a sponge. Even when he gets yanked his demeanor stay consistant. You can see him studying the floor when he’s on the bench. Keeps his emotions level. The spot lights, the criticism, the furstrating games and bonehead questions people ask him over & over. He stays level. His ego SEEMS tamed.
He’s the X-Factor! WHEN he gets it going he’ll have the strength of 2 countries pulling for him! Italy & Canada! Italy 58 Million plus Canada’s 33 Million. That’s 91 Million reasons he’ll find his mark! When Bargnani’s great ephinany happens the band wagon will start rollin’!
Let’s Go Bargnani!!
Arse,
I wasn’t talking about you in my post… I meant all the other ‘experts’ that are part of the ’sky is falling’ crew after every loss… I think you make legitimate points backed by a solid understanding of the team…
btw, i doubt doubling off ray allen was a discussed strategy before the Boston game… maybe the Raps needed to be reminded to not double off of one of the best pure shooters in the history of the game… but you would think a vet like AP would know not to do something so stupid!
d279,
No need for you to say, “I’d hate to see complicated”, as that much is already plain to see.
Comprehending complicated is far from everyone’s cup of tea.
——————————-
Tinman,
1. re: Khandor,
Disagree with your JO opinion. Funny there was no mention of us being better without JO when we lost to NJ and Boston. Keep picking your spots.
Then you haven’t read what I’ve had to say, elsewhere and here, in the summer, and then in the pre-season, and then in the early regular season, again.
You choose to ignore that. You choose to not read elsewhere … that’s your choice, not mine.
Fact is … when the Raptors lose two home games to the Nets and Celtics, and I choose not to repeat the same refrain, at that time, then, as I’ve said before, it’s because I don’t believe in piling on when they’re down already.
re: Once again you write too much. I hope your goal is to hijack this site so readers can go to yours, and I hope you succeed.
IMO, the real hijackers of a site are those who spend their time trying to discredit certain posters and telling others that certain posters are attempting to hijack a site … when the fact is those posters are not. What those posters are doing is expressing their opinions about a specific topic in the “comments” section of a blog about the Toronto Raptors.
You don’t like what someone else has to say? That’s your right.
Nothing more, and nothing less.
re: “Not aware.”
You bet, you are.
For everything else there’s MASTERCARD. : )
——————————–
pakmacman,
re: khandor: please stop with the JO posts… we all know where you stand… using 2-0 against ATL and CHA as evidence is weak and does not help prove your point. JO was brought in specifically after D Howard abused us in last years playoffs… JO played excellent against DH in the first meeting this year in case you forgot.
If this is what you think, then:
1. You’re entitled to hold that opinion.
2. Actually, I don’t think you understand what I’ve had to say at all.
——————————–
IMO … these were two nice, solid wins at home for the Raptors to get prior to these next 5 games, each of which is going to be a more difficult game for Toronto to win with Jermaine O’Neal in their line-up getting 25-30 minutes per game than it would be either:
i) Without him in their line-up at all; or,
ii) With him in their regular rotation, but …(A) getting 4th Big minutes, and (B) select opportunities to play when Chris Bosh [C/#5] is not on the floor at all, as a situational replacement for CB4.
Arsenalist,
Actually … yes, I was/am being serious.
Khandor,I dont know you from Adam,but I know what I read,and you are so full of yourself ……live in a basement apartment or still with mom and dad ? my fault scroll…
That ESPN article is good common sense. Parker’s expiring contract has trade value which leads me to wonder why we bought Garbajosa out instead of trading him to a team that would be looking to let him expire and maybe even buy him out if need be. That transaction never made any sense to me. I’m not 100% but I’m pretty certain that his contract is not eligible to be moved at this point.
Papi, I’d lay off on the Bargnani fellatio for a while. Let him amount to something concrete and have a full good season and then we can decide whether he’ll be the greatest player ever or just a Hall of Famer.
AltRaps – Everything is great in moderation. Your love for Mitchell and your hate for O’Neal both need reassessment and toning down.
khandor,
I do think I understand where you are coming from… I also understand I am not going to change your opinion… but please, do not try to pretend to know what I understand or what I don’t understand about your opinions… the condescending tone of your writing makes it seem that you think you have all the answers, and anyone who does not agree with your opinion has an inferior intellect…
I understand that you believe that JO makes the Raps a step too slow, maybe too dependent on half court sets (which we agree are not SMitch’s strong suit as a coach), and we would be better off giving those minutes to the better athletes on this team (Hump, JG, JM)… Also, we would have been better off making a deal not as risky, and try to build by drafting at 17 and finding players we could develop internally… fine… but what does that have to do with last nights game? why do you feel the need to break off into a soliloquy any chance you get?
maybe before your next post, you can start by giving us a recap of your various accomplishments regarding basketball… how long have you been an executive in the NBA? did you ever play at the NBA level, or for that matter, at NCAA level? Europe? High School? DLeague??
For someone who has all the answers, I don’t understand why you have a job in the NBA?
or maybe… you’re Larry Bird trying to put down the JO move to make yourself feel better?
d279,
I wouldn’t make a bet based on your prediction skills/assessments/observations/blind-as-a-bat-guesses regarding anything about me, as the FACT IS … you are 0-for-3 right there.
FACT IS … I’m not sure you know what you read at all.
Oh, come on! Arsenalist! I got the reigns! Giddy up! My Spidey Senses are tingling. I wasn’t implying “greatest player ever or just a Hall of Famer” I’m just saying the package is glimmering and getting ready to shine! I think he’s a great player now… with a developing Triple Threat ability. Defense is the hardest thing to learn in ball. He’s showing that he’s tring to focus a lot more on defense. After that the rest will come.
Oh, wait… I think I just seen you hiding in the back of the wagon Arse!
Arse: totally agree with why we didn’t try to trade Garbo… If we could package Garbo, Parker, and Joey’s expiring contracts right now I’m sure we could have made a substantial move…
according to Doug Smith, we cannot trade Garbo because he has been bought out…
khandor.
obviously that should read ‘why DON’T you have a job in the NBA?’
just wanted to add before you try to destroy my post or my knowledge of the game… i have agreed and disagreed with your opinions… so I am not a total khandor ‘hater’ I think there is a few of them… :)
BTW, I fully expect us to go 0-3 on this roadtrip and at best a 1-4 in the next five games with the only win coming maybe against Portland. The thing to look for is our defensive effort and whether we can stay in these games when the fourth quarter comes. Even then it’ll be a challenge but if we get there we could ride Bosh or a hot-hand for a W. 3-2 here would be AWESOME and I’d gladly settle for 2-3.
Nothing to do with ball but a funny story nonetheless:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/sports/football/30burress.html?ref=football
pakmacman,
re: the condescending tone of your writing makes it seem that you think you have all the answers, and anyone who does not agree with your opinion has an inferior intellect…
Read these next words carefully, okay?
“Dave”, does not always agree with my opinions about the NBA, or the Raptors [in general], and neither does “Flux”, nor “Raps Fan”, nor a poster named “Project” [who is a relatively new contributed to the comments section of my blog], nor “Dan H”, nor countless others in the blogosphere … and, the simple fact is, I do not think they have an inferior intellect to me.
For those who think I think they have an inferior intellect to me, then, maybe that says a lot more about them … and the mind-set they have … than it does about me, or what it is I think about them.
pakmacman,
Respect to you … if you are not a hater. I have no quarrel with you, nor anyone else here.
Arsenalist,
Without wishing any further ill to Plax … I couldn’t help but LOL when first hearing about that story on the radio while driving about town earlier this afternoon.
Imagine that … an NFL player hospitalized … for shooting himself in the foot/leg/thigh?
Do you think he also realizes that his actual life expectancy, as an NFL player is 20 years LESS than an average citizen who does not play in the National Football League?
[who knows ... maybe this was just his way of getting sent home early from active duty in the war zone? : )]
“do not try to pretend to know what I understand or what I don’t understand about your opinions… the condescending tone of your writing makes it seem that you think you have all the answers, and anyone who does not agree with your opinion has an inferior intellect…”
pakmacman – that’s what I have been trying to communicate since I have discovered this site. Well said, a lot more politer than I.
As a Giants fan, I could only shake my head and laugh. The weird/funny thing is that it happens almost on the anniversary of Sean Taylor’s death.
Arsenalist, re your comments accusing Calderon of concentrating on Bosh and not creating for his team mates, please remember the comments from the coaching group to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ,send the ball into the post, and let it move from there.
He is simply following the game plan, and in some cases due to the defense reacting to him, Bosh or Parker, recieve the entry pass and then get the assist on the basket, by a second pass, with Bosh getting 7 assists vs Atlanta.
Calderon got 11 assists vs Atlanta, with 4 from Bosh, 4 from Kapono, 2 from Moon, and 1 from Bargnani, on made baskets. I would say that is a pretty good distribution to his best scorers, who were open.
Caldron’s shot is not falling right now, but there is nothing wrong with his game management, which is outstanding, and his defensive effort has improved the last 2 games, although he will never be a great 1 on 1 defender.
Johnn, that’s some decent distribution indeed but I’d like to point out the difference between getting an assist and creating a shot for someone. They’re two very different things as you’ll agree. You know that play against Charlotte where Calderon drove the ball late in the fourth and dished it off for Joey for the slam? That’s creating.
Contrast this with bringing the ball upcourt and swinging it out to Kapono who’s brave enough to take and make a shot. They both count as assists but one of them is so much more. Its that assist that I’m looking for from him. The Hawks had a couple of those nice kick-outs from the paint which could count as solid assists.
I’m not worried about his shot, it’ll come. He’s a great shooter and will start nailing them. I think the defense has a lot to do with him not being able to drive anymore, those NBA scouts keep busy and have figured out that he likes to turn the corner for drives and the pick-defender gets in position quickly. We haven’t found a way to counter and get him those layups this season.
If the game-plan is to put the breaks on and find a post-up player EVERY SINGLE TIME then I have to disagree with the plan, I think a lot of it is Calderon being cautious to a fault when in transition.
Tinman,
Thanks re: #35
Looks like we have more in common than our love for the raps. Cheers!
Wow..is it that difficult to scroll by someone’s comment if you KNOW you are not going to like anything they have to say? Grow up already! WHAAA! Mommy, Khandor hurt my feelings!!! WHAAA!!! He’s condescending! WHAAAA!! Change your diaper and use the wheel on your mouse!
Johnn19,
Comment #37 is right on the money.
It’s his judgment with the ball that causes a coach like Larry Brown, who knows a thing or two about what a great NBA Point Guard looks like, to say things like, “Calderon played a fantastic game against us”, when he shot a mediocre percentage versus Charlotte but still made every correct decision that was needed to ensure a victory for the Raptors … including the creation of a dunk for Joey Graham on one of the game’s most important possessions.
pakmacman,
re: I understand that you believe that JO makes the Raps a step too slow, maybe too dependent on half court sets (which we agree are not SMitch’s strong suit as a coach), and we would be better off giving those minutes to the better athletes on this team (Hump, JG, JM)… Also, we would have been better off making a deal not as risky, and try to build by drafting at 17 and finding players we could develop internally… fine… but what does that have to do with last nights game? why do you feel the need to break off into a soliloquy any chance you get?
Now … if you’ll allow me to to explain further, I have no problem trying to convey to you what I meant originally by this,
——————————-
“‘re: khandor: please stop with the JO posts… we all know where you stand… using 2-0 against ATL and CHA as evidence is weak and does not help prove your point. JO was brought in specifically after D Howard abused us in last years playoffs… JO played excellent against DH in the first meeting this year in case you forgot.’
If this is what you think, then:
1. You’re entitled to hold that opinion.
2. Actually, I don’t think you understand what I’ve had to say at all.
——————————–
re: Using 2-0 against ATL and CHA as evidence is weak and does not help prove your point.
1st. What do you think I am using 2-0 against ATL and CHA as “evidence of”, in the first place?
2nd. In what way do you think that “evidence” might qualify as being “weak” in some sense?
3rd. What do you think my “point” was, in the first place?
From my standpoint … once you answer me these three questions, then I can do my best to verify for you whether your understanding of what I said before that was accurate or not … since based on the different things you mentioned in your first comment [see below]:
1. JO was brought in specifically after D Howard abused us in last years playoffs… [i.e. the reason O'Neal was brought in is not relevant to what I said]
2. JO played excellent against DH in the first meeting this year in case you forgot. [i.e. whether this happened or not is not relevant to what I said]
and, then, in your second comment [see below]:
3. I understand that you believe that JO makes the Raps a step too slow, [i.e. I did not say that I believe JO makes the Raps a step too slow]
4. maybe too dependent on half court sets (which we agree are not SMitch’s strong suit as a coach), [i.e. I did not say that I believe the Raps are too dependent on half court sets]
5. Also, we would have been better off making a deal not as risky, and try to build by drafting at 17 and finding players we could develop internally… fine… but what does that have to do with last nights game? [i.e. How did the players who the Raptors already have on their roster last season perform in last night's game? As a group, did they perform well enough to beat the Hawks? and, the Bobcats before that? If so, then what legit inferences can be made from that?]
6. why do you feel the need to break off into a soliloquy any chance you get? [i.e. Although I am well-versed in the nature of a soliloquy, it seems to me as though you are mis-applying the term here, as the FACT IS ... when you or others take the time to ask me questions based on what I've written here, or elsewhere, what transpires then is not remotely connected to a soliloquy, in any sense of the word ... but a "conversation" that takes place between two or more of us, from which we can ALL learn something, IMO, if we are each open-minded and willing to respect the other's POV.]
it still seems to me as though you did not understood what I said in the first place.
Now … if that undertaking is too much for you, which I can certainly see how it might be, then we can always just agree to let it go.
Arse, as was pointed out earlier by someone else, the same can be said about you, just in reverse. Moderation, my friend.
Plus, in case you missed it (again) I don’t hate HO, just what he represents as it relates to Liar (for you RapsFan) and this club.
To each their own…that’s what makes the world go ’round. (well, for mature people)
Flux: #40 – Awesome! even if it was directed at me, still funny…
khandor: where to start? i dont think i will be able to get through this… I had a very rough night last night, and am still feeling the effects of waaaaaaaaaaay too many jaegerbombs… If my thoughts jumped around earlier its most definitely because I have the worst hangover that I’ve had in quite some time.
1. & 2. I think it is relevant to why he is here… something that you don’t seem very fond of… (unless he is used as a 4th big…) I mentioned both because I think that is why he was brought in, and the risk was taken to make the move.
3. & 4. I assumed (i know, i shouldn’t…) that you wanted the Raps to play the younger more athletic players so we could play at a slightly quicker pace…
I disagree that JO doesn’t make us better defensively… I think he gives us a presence down low that we will need against teams with bigger guys that we couldn’t handle before. (read: Dwight Howard)
5. I think the players that were held over from last year did a great job bringing energy last night… But, we already know we can beat teams like ATL, and CHA… I want to, eventually, get to the point where we can beat the upper echelon teams in the league… and I don’t think that is possible with this current roster… I think making the deal for JO, was meant to send a signal to the league, and maybe more importantly to CB4 that we are serious about getting to the upper echelon teams in the league.
I want to add that I agreed with you (it hurts to even type that) about maybe moving JG into the starting lineup with JM… So I don’t want you to think that I think you are necessarily ‘wrong’ with your opinion… I just want to make the point that your opinion is not necessarily ‘right’ because you ’sayeth so’… as I mentioned before, it ’seems’ like you think you know everything about anything regarding the Raps and basketball in general.
6. I am not talking about your direct responses.. I was talking about post #5 today… a totally unprovoked super long post about how great your opinion is… I think that is a ’soliloquy’ :)
Just my opinion man… I always have an open mind, and I respect everyone’s opinion even if I don’t agree. I don’t pretend to have all the answers… I’m just a serious hoops fan that loves the Raptors…
BTW, now that I’ve taken the time to respond to your questions, (which, btw, was very difficult in my current condition) maybe you can respond to:
‘maybe before your next post, you can start by giving us a recap of your various accomplishments regarding basketball… how long have you been an executive in the NBA? did you ever play at the NBA level, or for that matter, at NCAA level? Europe? High School? DLeague??
For someone who has all the answers, I don’t understand why you don’t have a job in the NBA?
or maybe… you’re Larry Bird trying to put down the JO move to make yourself feel better?’
Khandor, you write alot! Every post I’ve read so far, it takes about a minute (big exaggeration) to get by ONE of your comments. How do you do it? don’t you get bored of it? Or do you like writing that much?
Arsenalist, I have to agree that Calderon feeds Bosh alot, but isn’t easy just feed Bosh all day? at least you can count on some points LOL. But at the end of the day, Calderon is a good PG.
And nice post, I didn’t get to see much of it. All I caught was some first quarter (with no volume, and score, it looked like a brickfest) and 4th.
packmacman… no not at you in particular. Just silly to have to sort through x amount of “Dr. Phil please help me” comments EVERY. SINGLE.DAY. Love the rest of it though. I learn a ton on here, from everyone.
Altraps,
I think its rather presumptious to claim that our lack of off-the-ball movement has just been the players not following Smitch’s gameplan. Especially when all the post-game comments (from Kap and Mitchell) suggest that this was a new adjustment implemented for the first time.
Our offensive plan of spreading out shooters around Bosh and moving the ball, only worked for one season. After that, teams recognized that our shooters couldn’t break down their defenders and they refused to play off them. Obviously its tough having a roster without anybody who can dribble-penetrate, and that’s on Colangelo. But as a coach, you make do with what you have. And one way is to get those shooters moving off-the-ball, coming off screens, and getting open before they recieve the pass. The fact that it’s taken Smitch this long to figure that out is ridiculous.
Chutney, not entirely presumptuous. I was referring to how Sam pleads with his guys to run. You can hear it/see it on the sidelines most games, if not all of them. Even pre-injury, Jose was not pushing the ball as he has at times in the past. The funny thing is, when they do push it, good things usually happen. If it is frustrating for us to see, imagine what it’s like for all the coaches. But what do you do?
If speaking specifically about Kapono, I agree that it seemed that there were 2 specific plays run for him, but the others were him creating his own shot…something he could have been doing all season. What irks me is how, as Sam said, Kapono had to be “reminded” he’s a shooter. If that is truly the case, it’s mindblowing.
You make a great point about plays we SHOULD be running, but I wonder if we have the horses to do it. Moon’s mind is elsewhere and he seems content to stand and wait either for a pass or a chance to go up for a lob, Parker I think should definitely move more, Solomon is out of control, Humph and HO are more about the boards. Bargs would be an interesting experiment to run off screens, but I have to wonder if teams would switch a big on him. If they do, it negates one advantage he usually has against opponents. I also fear that we would get called a lot on illegal screens with guys like Joey, Humph, etc stepping out a bit too much. Murphy’s law.
Be interesting to see if Kapono continues to play with his head in the game and if AP can put another solid game together. More than Joey and Kris, in a few ways I think those two are keys to any success.
pakmacman,
First. Highest commendations on your effort. I appreciate THAT most of all.
Second.
re: 1 & 2
Neither is relevant, at least, to me … as the answer to that particular riddle [i.e. D12 vs Toronto] is not what caused the Raptors to lose that playoff series last season, IMO.
The Raptors’ would have eradicated their main problem from last season simply by removing TJ Ford from their roster. Period. Via buyout, or a trade for a marginal player like Rodney Carney. It did not matter, as long as they didn’t do something ridiculous like add $21 Million worth of salary, in the form of a single player, that was going to hog-tie their roster this season, given the current budgetary climate at MLSE.
Losing Mr. Ford, by himself, was addition by subtraction, in my book book … which is a viewpoint that my compadre, Flux, for example, disagrees with vehemently [and, thus, we simply agree to disagree with one another, as reasonable people the world over should do with and for one another ... no harm, no foul].
re: 3 & 4
The “pace” at which the Raptors play is of little consequence to me. When I watch an NBA game and then break it down into its smallest components parts, what concerns me most is a team’s effectiveness during the individual possessions which are crucial to deciding the outcome of a specific game. These possessions change game-to-game and opponent-to opponent, regardless what the pace of play is.
re: 5
Actually … prior to the last night’s game the Raptors did not know that they could beat the Hawks team this season, as they lost their first meeting with Atlanta this season.
Beating Charlotte was a known quantity prior to the game this past week as the Raptors had previously beaten the Bobcats in North Carolina earlier this season.
What the Raptors learned this week, specifically in these two games, is that they can and did beat the Hawks and the Bocats in solid outings at home without Jermaine O’Neal not in the line-up, which is basically part of what I said in my original comment here.
The fact is … the Raptors did not know that they could do this before … despite what I felt their capabilities were without Jermaine O’Neal in their line-up.
If you’ve visited my blog then you know already that, in my book, Confidence comes from Accomplishment.
In comparison, what the Raptors have “accomplished”, thus far, with JO in their line-up is, indeed, precious little, in the grand scheme of things, in the NBA.
What I say isn’t “Right” simply because I’m the one saying it.
If what I do say happens to be “Right”, however, it’s because, with the passage of time, and after the proverbial pudding has been eaten by the guests invited to the party … what I say can sometimes be shown to have been “Correct” in the first place, despite the initial mis-givings of others.
Hopefully, you should be able to see the difference there.
re: 6
Those were my specific thoughts on the Raptors’ performance after last night’s game, and reading Arsenalist’s article this morning. If that’s a soliloquy, then, I will need to plead “Guilty as charged”. I do not tell others to say what they have to say about the Raptors with MORE words than what they choose to use; or, with FEWER words, either. The comments I have no interest in reading, I scroll by. Others are free to do likewise with mine.
Third. In reply to the question you asked me … know that, at this time in my life, choosing to work for one NBA team is of little interest to me, as I much prefer to do what I do at present, in comparison with that.
——————
From my perspective, it’s a pleasure exchanging thoughts and ideas about the games people play with others in an environment like this one. : )
Why is everyone ragging on Jose?
If you’ve ever played basketball, you’d know that a PG’s job isn’t to “create” shots for his teammates in the sense that s/he simply dribble around then spoon feed a dump-off or kick out for a layup or jump shot.
These are good plays, yes, but to expect a point guard to do this every possession means you’ve been watching too much street ball.
A PG should facilitate the offense, which means control the pace, limit turnovers and get the ball to where it needs to go at the right time. He isn’t expecting to get an assist with every pass (nor should anyone in basketball). It’s about making the right pass at the right time, even if it means making the pass that leads to the pass that leads to an assist.
Dumping it into the post or handing it to Bosh is the smartest offensive play 95% of the time for this team. So wouldn’t you agree Calderon is making the smartest play 95% of the time then? So how can you complain about that?
Who’s the prototypical point-guard of our era? John Stockton? Steve Nash?
Those guys racked up assists predicated on a 2-man offense with these guys named Malone and Stoudemire. If you criticize Jose for not “creating” you basically have to level the same criticism at Nash and Stockton.
Also, have you ever tried to play basketball with a strained hamstring? It’s hard. Really really hard. And that’s the typical lame pickup rec-leage ball. To be playing in the NBA with a bad hammy is damn near impossible considering the speed and athleticism of these players. Cut the dude some slack.
Simon, that is some simplistic thinking. That’s like saying Derek Fisher makes the right play 100% of the time by passing it to Kobe on the wing. No doubt a PG should facilitate things and control the pace but that doesn’t mean he has to be conservative in his approach and pass-up scoring opportunities because the command from above is to run a half-court play. There’s as much improvisation involved in playing PG than there is following directions from the coach.
If all we needed was a PG who could pass Bosh the ball and control the pace we would’ve signed a 3rd-tier PG who doesn’t turn the ball over much. Calderon as advertised (to me at least) is supposed to score for us, run the pick ‘n roll with Bosh and when need be, create for Parker/Kapono/Bargnani on the wings through dribble penetration (optionally using the high screen).
Here are a few examples of great PGs that create consistently for their mates: Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash. Here is a second tier of PGs that do the same: Devin Harris, Andre Miller, Raymond Felton… I’m not saying this second-tier is better than Calderon (except Harris), I’m saying Calderon needs to take a component from their games and add it to his, if he has the talent/ability to do it.
I don’t get the strained hamstring bit. If you’re hurt, sit down. Don’t play with an excuse.
Simon,
What you wrote there about playing the PG position … especially at the highest levels of the game … is 100% crrect. Kudos to you!
re: “we would’ve signed a 3rd-tier PG who doesn’t turn the ball over much.”
There’s no such thing.
Point guard is a hell of a lot harder of a position than it looks. Just being a point guard who can efficiently run an offense without having a high turnover rate is a very rare skill. That kind of “floor general” is an invaluable commodity that most NBA teams would kill to have. I can only think of a scant few in the past 15 years or so: Calderon, Avery Johnson, Stockton, Billups, and Andre Miller. Brevin Knight in a good year might fit into that category. None of those guys are known for shot creation, none of them would ever be the central superstar of a championship team, but they all do good things for the teams they’ve played for. Miller in Philly turned them around, and Denver declined drastically when they swapped him for Iverson. Exact same story with Billups for Iverson. Johnson was a big part of the reason the Twin Towers were so brutally efficient. Stockton, well, I don’t need to say much about Stockton, but if he had played with the Clippers his whole career we’d be talking about him in the same sentence as Brevin Knight rather than Bob Cousy.
The point is, these are guys that take a team over the hump. They can get a good team over the hump to being a great team, but they’re not going to turn an okay team into championship material. We’re not quite there yet, so Jose might be a little underappreciated, but I genuinely believe he can be the lynchpin of a championship team. He’s just not going to carry us there.
(btw, watch out for Denver this year. With the resurgence of Nené and the Birdman and Billups at the helm, they just vaulted into the top 3 in the West.)
Oh, throw Dumars after Isaiah left into that “floor general” category.
tkfu,
It sounds to me as though both you and Simon may have played the PG position at a high level over the course of your basketball career [or are still playing at that spot today].
Joe D. definitely fit into that category, as well.
HMMMMMMMM….not that I necessarely disagree with this PG discussion, but I am more with Arse on this. Billups and Miller can post PGs up.. Calderon? He doesn’t have the creative passes of Nash…Brevin is probably a better defender and is quicker. Also, Billups hits big shots and makes things happen with the clock running down (in the playoffs) and many other things. Jose is not Billups by any stretch of the imagination. Not even close.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jose is not a good (tennis ball machine like) distributor.. just need to see more then that, more often, more consistently.
I don’t think he’s up there with these guys yet, he may look like he could be, I just don’t see him there.
“There’s as much improvisation involved in playing PG than there is following directions from the coach.” This is what bothers me about the NJ playoff series or when people blame Sam for plays that he draws up.
No doubt, don’t play with an excuse.
Khandor, how does Avery play into the diminutive PG never win chips argument?
On the subject of PG, was there a reason (perhaps outside of cap criteria) for Detroit to make that deal?
I think it was mostly about cap. Dumars has the sense to know he probably wasn’t going to make his team better this season with AI, but he saw a team that’s maybe the 6th-best in the league and, not wanting to settle for that, grabbed a chance at keeping them flexible and contending for a number of years in the future. I’d guess he thinks there’s a (small) chance AI will actually be good for them, but really, this trade is all about taking one step back to take 2 steps forward.
@FLUXLAND: I’m not saying Calderon’s up there with those guys necessarily (i’d put him below Billups and Stockton, but above Miller, Knight, and Johnson), I’m saying the way he impacts a game is similar. Why? Because with all of those guys, the opposing team doesn’t come into the game saying “Alright, we’ve got to shut down [stockton/miller/billups] if we’re going to win.” They’re all guys who make their offense run smoother when they’re on the court. Sure, Billups has a better post-up game and D, Miller’s a better slasher, and Stockton’s a ball hawk. Calderon’s a better jump shooter than any of those guys, but none of that has any bearing on my point, which is that (this type of) good point guards are able to stay calm, direct traffic, and take care of the ball.
Sorry to spam, but regarding Nash, look at how average he’s looking now that the Suns are running a standard half-court offense–pretty much exactly how he looked in Dallas. In that type of system, I genuinely believe Jose would be better than Nash.
Tkfu, agree with that last point. All I am saying is, that is not all that there is to it. Your description fits into the tennis ball machine analogy perfectly. (IMO, he needs more then that when playing against better teams or in the playoffs. Then again, maybe I am wrong.)
And, if that’s all we need from a PG.. we didn’t need to sign Jose.
He doesn’t penetrate and dish (ala TJ).
He doesn’t do anything in the open court or transition. (ala TJ)
His half court game.. blah, I dunno.
He can’t create his own shot. (ala TJ)
He doesn’t play good D. (TJ was better,IMO)
Flux,
IMO, there were two distinctions, re: the title-winning efforts of AJ.
1. Despite being only 5-11, which is short by PG standards in the NBA, Avery weighed-in at a fairly sturdy 185 lbs., ala Isiah Thomas [180] & Chris Paul [175], respectively; neither of whom would I put into the “small” category. It’s more a combination of height, weight, strength and explosive power that determines if a quality PG fits into the “smallish” category or not [ala TJ Ford, at 5-11/6-0, 165], in the NBA.
2. If you’re going to be a “smaller PG”, in this League and hope to lead your team to a NBA Title one day, it also behooves you to play with a front-court that features two of the All-Time Best Centers in History, i.e. Tim Duncan [6-11] and David Robinson [7-1], side-by-each, as noted shot-blockers, Lane Patrols [in various "help" situations], and Defensive Rebounding Specialists.
Khandor, thanks. I still believe in TJ. : ) Yeah, I knew #2 was part of it. And it’s what makes the biggest difference.
Put TJ in that situation, I think he makes the same thing happen. No worries, I know you disagree with that.
Look, for better or worse, we are a half-court team. We play at a very slow pace and don’t fast-break much, but for the last 2 years we’ve been extremely efficient in the half court. I think where I disagree with you is on basic assumptions. My basic premise is that staying calm, directing traffic, and taking care of the ball are very difficult things to do, and your basic assumption seems to be that those are not exceptional skills. But if they’re not, why there are only a very few guys in the league who have them?
Regarding your specific points about TJ:
He does penetrate and dish. Not as much as TJ, but he also throws it away a lot less, and takes a lot less bad shots.
He runs the fast break when it’s there. TJ would run it even when it wasn’t there, 2 on 3. Sometimes good things would happen, but there were also a lot of turnovers, bad shots and, most importantly, broken, ad-hoc offensive sets.
TJ could create his own low-percentage shot. Jose tries to get the best shot for his team, every possession. The offense was always better when Jose was in the game.
Defense, no argument there. TJ was better, but wasn’t exactly a stopper either. And I think that IF O’Neal can stay healthy, Jose’s defensive liabilities can be mitigated.
tkfu,
Great/solid points you’re making here.
re: Calderon’s a better jump shooter than any of those guys, but none of that has any bearing on my point, which is that (this type of) good point guards are able to stay calm, direct traffic, and take care of the ball.
Correct me, if I’m wrong about this, in your opinion, but I think you might also be willing to say that … part of what sets Calderon above the other PG’s who just “stay calm, direct traffic, and take care of the ball” is the fact that HE CAN/DOES stick the open jumpshot with regularity when it’s presented to him as the best option for his team at that moment in time.
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re: but regarding Nash, look at how average he’s looking now that the Suns are running a standard half-court offense–pretty much exactly how he looked in Dallas. In that type of system, I genuinely believe Jose would be better than Nash.
This is outstanding recognition, on your part.
Part of Mike D’Antoni’s [and not Bryan Colangelo's] authentic genius, in Phoenix, was his realization and his COMMITMENT to allow both Steve Nash & Amare Stoudemire the freedom they each need to function at their highest levels of capacity, operating exclusively within the confines of a basic 4 out/1 in alignment which finds Stat as the Center-piece of his team’s offensive deployment of pieces, setting a relentless series of picks for his PG, without the lane being clogged up by a 2nd Big, regardless who it might be.
Steve is a very good PG, in the NBA … but it’s a simple fact that he BECOMES an All-Time Great Point Guard, in this League, if/when he’s allowed/made to function in THAT type of specific offensive environment.
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This corner of the internet just got a lot more fun to frequent with your recent arrival. : )
I realize TJ’s “qualities” where not necessarely the whole key to success, maybe I wish Jose had more of TJ in him in certain situations/areas. Good things can happen while being more aggressive, and I prefer it more to Jose’s conservative style. Both, in essence have positives and negatives, maybe it just comes down to preference.
Also, I think your TJ assessment is more towards his post injury return, then prior to (?).
“That’s like saying Derek Fisher makes the right play 100% of the time by passing it to Kobe on the wing”
I don’t know if that’s analogous. If the Lakers give the ball to Kobe all the time, that isn’t their most efficient means of scoring, whereas, like I said, running the screen and roll for Bosh is simply our most effective play, for better or for worse.
I’m not saying Calderon is as good as Nash or Billups, I just feel he’s undervalued for what he does. You say if all we needed to do was throw it in the post we could have signed any scrub, but that clearly isn’t true as you can see with Roko and Will. Throwing a simple post-feed is still a skill, and it’s these non-flashy aspects to running a team, along with timing and recognition that make Jose a great point guard.
I agree he could be penetrating more, but as I said, I’d wait until he’s completely healthy to say anything. Besides, that’s like saying Devin Harris should turn the ball over less and get his teammates more involved. They’re different types of players who will always have different strengths.
As for the hammy, I’ll take Jose at 70% on the floor over Roko/Will at 180% any day please. That’s why he doesn’t sit, and frankly I am thankful for it.