These are tough times, team’s not playing well, the injuries are piling up, the defense isn’t there and worst of all a potentially humbling West coast trip is lurking in the shadows. They say you have to hit rock-bottom before you can start to rise and I think we officially did that this weekend. The New Jersey loss was shocking and the Boston massacre was just that, a massacre. It’s the way we lost the Boston game that bugs you more than the defeat itself. We were outplayed, outclassed and made to look like a very inferior team, a team that is leagues below the Celtics in every category. Before the season started there were many who thought that we could give the good teams a run for their money but so far it just hasn’t happened and we’ve followed the same old Raptors pattern – beat the bad and lose to the good.
One of those “bad” teams is coming to town on Wednesday, its the Charlotte Bobcats who stretched us earlier in the year before Bosh took over in the fourth. You would think we can come through here and briefly restore the winning feeling around the club before we head into a tough matchup against an athletic Atlanta team. If we get these two we’ll be back above .500 before heading out to meet the Lakers on Sunday where the struggles are likely to continue. The goal is to have Jose Calderon and Jermaine O’Neal 100% healthy and if it means they got to skip these games, so be it. The last thing we want is Jose Calderon – a terrible defensive player – limping around with an excuse to not play any defense. It’s not a slight at Calderon, his effort is always 100%, but I don’t want to lose any more games by having a PG that can’t come close to defending his position. Let Roko or Will play, they’re our designated backup point guards and we shouldn’t be scared to give them playing time. After all what does it say about the confidence coaches and management have in them when they ask Jose to play hurt instead of giving Willoko some burn. Speaking of those two, here’s what NBA scouts are saying about them:
“Neither of those guys have shown they deserve to be in the NBA Certainly not on a good team. At best they should be your fifth guard and inactive most nights. If I was Sam I’d be playing Calderon 40 minutes a game. ”
The difference between winning and losing in the NBA is so small that if you can sell something as an advantage to your team, you’re going to do it and if you know Calderon is a little banged up and the guys behind aren’t at the same level, that’s the kind of thing that’s going to be sold to your team.”
As much as I like Roko the scout is bang on. Playing Calderon for 40 minutes a game and hoping his defense picks up is the way to go if you want to beat more than a treadmill team. We got to hope the last couple performances by him were anomalies because of his injury and not something permanent. To his credit, he recognizes that his defense needs to be a lot better:
“There are no excuses because of injury. I have got to get better. I’m the first that has got to be much better on defense.”
Anytime a team is struggling there’s always the Don’t Panic post and it comes from Eric Smith. He’s urging you to wait while Sam Mitchell waits for Jamario Moon, Jason Kapono and Joey Graham to develop consistency. He’s also waiting for the “killer instinct” to show up and rescue the lax malaise that surrounds the club. He’s waiting for the chemistry to develop and looking at positives such as the leads we’ve had in the games we’ve lost rather than the loss itself. My answer to that is we couldn’t get Jamario Moon, Jason Kapono and Joey Graham to develop consistency all last season so what makes you think its going to happen now? The “killer instinct” isn’t an on/off switch, its something you’re born with (ask KG) and sad to say nobody on this team has shown that they have it. Maybe Jermaine O’Neal but I haven’t seen enough of the guy to form an opinion yet. For us to get better it has to start at the defensive end. Anthony Parker, Jose Calderon, Jamario Moon have to play defense at a much higher level for this team to accomplish even the modest of goals. It has to be a team-commitment and an individual one, as they say the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack. I believe that our offense will find itself if we can get stops and generate points off of our defense. That’s not to say the offense isn’t a problem, it’s a big problem especially the fourth quarter kind, but if you have to start somewhere, start on D.
Check out Sam Mitchell’s interview after practice yesterday (JO didn’t participate but saw video) and he sounds about as defeated as ever. He’s saying all the right things – looked at tape, got good work done, help the helper, get back to basics, better spacing, stop dribble penetration yadda yadda yadda. He’s searching for answers just like we are and coming up empty. He’s hammering away his philosophy to the team and the team has trouble responding because #1) the talent isn’t there and #2) the motivation is questionable. I can handle #1 and blame Colangelo for sleeping through the draft and the summer but if #2 is off then its time to become angry.
The other issue with Mitchell is that our offense can’t seem to get an easy shot to save their lives. The defense always seems to recover after doubling Bosh leaving the offense back to where it started. The high pick ‘n roll hasn’t been nearly as effective as in previous years because the ball defender is managing to negotiate the pick by either fighting through it or going under and quickly recovering before Jose can launch his jumper. Jose’s quickness hasn’t been there so far this year and he hasn’t been able to turn using the pick for layups or deep penetration. The NBA scouts seemed to have figured out what we’ve been doing the past two seasons and its time for us to look elsewhere for offense. Unfortunately that’s easier said than done. Aside from the PnR our other natural route for points is Bosh double leading to open threes, something that we did very well two years ago. Clever double-teaming by the opposition combined with poor spacing has neutralized this plan of attack. Rewind to the Celtics game and Bosh is being doubled on the right block, Celtics bring a double from the weak-side which Bosh never sees and turns the ball over. Another possession: Bosh is doubled but Jason Kapono is on the weak-side so his man has no reason to leave him and instead Andrea Bargnani takes a forced jumper. It’s the little common sense stuff that the Raptors have got wrong which tells me we’re far from being an offensive machine. Sam Mitchell’s ingenuity is on the line here, its unacceptable for Kapono to have 0 shots or for us to get crushed in PINP and lose the fastbreak battle every single time. He’s got to come up with ways to kick-start this offense and he’s got to think beyond running the same play expecting different results because that’s insanity.
I’m a little concerned with Bosh’s reaction after the Boston game. It’s not very leader-like. I understand his disappointment in his teammates but he’s got to look in the mirror before pointing the fingers. He had a statistically okay game but his impact was minimal. He’s got a right to be upset with the dribble penetration, the lack of intensity and “playing scared” but the way to air that out is going to your GMs office and showing him the tape that you’re forced to watch in practice. You can’t blame a poor player for being a poor player. You have to blame the GM for selecting him. You have to blame the GM for allowing the team to become so poor that your star player is out of answers when asked why they got blown out at home in a game everybody but the team was up for.
Here’s the business we got to take care of this week: 1) get JO and Calderon healthy 2) beat the Bobcats in a strong defensive performance 3) revenge Atlanta and play like you’re pissed that they beat you last time. This will give us some momentum going out West and hopefully the team and coaches will do some soul-searching and come up with answers as to why they can’t score, defend or play hard. It’s a tall order but you got to start somewhere. I don’t know if Sam Mitchell’s days are already numbered but if we get a poor performance out of the club in the next two games you can be assured that he’ll be flying commercial once we come back from out West. Speaking of which, you can win some money by predicting when Sam might get fired.
Doug Smith said that Sam Mitchell’s job is very safe, I don’t know how he knows that because I don’t think Colangelo calls him up for friendly chats. I have to think if the team struggles and continues to show the offensive ineptitude and spotty defensive effort, Colangelo would be forced to swallow his salary to prevent a disastrous season. Is 6-7 disastrous? No, it’s nothing like the Washington and OKC records (1-10, 1-11) so I can see why Colangelo would give Mitchell some more time to correct the course. If by some divine intervention we come back with a winning record from the West coast trip all will be forgotten. It’s also important to note that the Raptors of the past two seasons have started off with pretty poor records (6-7 and 2-8) before picking up the pace so that’s got to be weighing on Colangelo’s mind too. But if we do end up replacing Sam Mitchell we need to bring in a veteran NBA coach, Ettore Messina is not going to work. Mark Jackson anyone?
That’s about it. Oh yeah, we’re falling like a rock in those power rankings.
98 Raps
I cant believe its come to this but we have too many holes on this team that cant be ignored. No SF or SG, a PG who plays little defense and a thin as an Ethiopian for a bench. I say after this season is over with we cash in all our assets. I was wondering if management were to have a heart to heart chat with Bosh asking him if he wants to be here long term and to get his honest opinion of the current landscape. If he cant give Bryan a handshake to show his loyalty and commitment then all bets are off.
Is this a viable solution:
Bosh for the 2009 #1 Pick. Add another good role player
Calderon for a starting SF or SG
Oneil’s expiring for the #4 – 8 pick in the 2009 draft
My honest opinion here is Bosh is not going to resign in Toronto. The rest of the league knows were a soft, sinking ship with Bosh the only one swimming. Kevin Garnette knows this and called us out on it. Chris is off to Cleveland to play with Lebron or he’s off to Detroit – that team is stacked I would go there too. Dwayne, Amare, Joe Johnson, Dirk are not coming here. They want a ring before they call it a career.
We need to get equal value this time around. Letting Bosh walk and Oneil walk is franchise suicide. And if Bosh goes, you damn well know Jermaine walks too.
“Neither of those guys have shown they deserve to be in the NBA Certainly not on a good team. At best they should be your fifth guard and inactive most nights. If I was Sam I’d be playing Calderon 40 minutes a game. ”
The difference between winning and losing in the NBA is so small that if you can sell something as an advantage to your team, you’re going to do it and if you know Calderon is a little banged up and the guys behind aren’t at the same level, that’s the kind of thing that’s going to be sold to your team.”
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And Colangelo signs these idiots. Brilliant.Your not winning a single playoff game/round if you don’t intimidate your opponent.
Eddie Jordan and Caron Butler to fix what ails ye?
its sorta easy for other teams to scout us.year after year under sam, regardless of personnel, we’ve run the same basic crap over and over.opposing teams know exactly what we do on d and on o, WERE COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE and now were just getting exposed nightly.the better teams expose us more and lesser teams still expose us but we still may get the win depending on if our shats be fallin.were yet to beat an ..do you guys realize how demoralizing it is for players like bosh,jo,caldy and bargs to be putting up the numbers they are and STILL LOSE?
….were yet to beat an elite team
Smitch’s job is safe because he is owed so much money (thankyou for giving him such a long contract BC) that MLSE wil not buy him out. Also, hiring a good coach (Avery, Eddie Jordan) is going to require around 4-5 million a season, also somethink that the MLSE is not going to spend
Mark Jackson?! There’s allot of experience for you! When, last I checked, both Flip Saunders & Avery Johnson are available!!
‘…the team and coaches will do some soul-searching and come up with answers as to why they can’t score, defend or play hard.’
if they’re trying to figure out why they can’t do those things AFTER the charlotte & atlanta games, what chance do they have of beating either? the bobbies just beat philly (it was fugly), and while atlanta has come down to earth, they’re still a formidable opponent. i wish i could scratch together some optimism, but i’m guessing a split against those two, the same sad displays on both ends of the floor in abundant supply, and they head out west for the inevitible slaughtering.
they have 15 games until xmas. if they play like they have been (i.e. woefully inconsistent, able to beat the ‘bad’ teams but more than likely to lose to teams that are either ‘good’ or ‘as good as them’), i count, at best, 8 wins (charlotte, atlanta, indy, NJ (x2), dallas, OKC & the clippers). and that’s being pretty optimistic…reality is, i’m guessing 5/6 wins is probably more accurate. but let’s say they get 8…that puts them at .500 before the mini-break over xmas. is that where they envisioned themselves at the start of the year? i doubt it. is it enough to make a change, either a trade or coaching move? i doubt it.
eddie Jordan!?!???!! I wouldn’t mind him at all.
7 games until the infamous 20 game mark! All losses, IMO.
I predicted 2-6 at end of the last 3 day break. 2-3 so far.
Brace yourselves for an epic losing streak, boys and girls.
A new coach is not the answer, a trade (to shake up the roster and wake MFs uo) is.
flux – agree wholeheartedly. not gonna happen, they have no assets that could possibly bring back even a marginal player, since they aren’t moving JO, bosh, bargs or jose, the only 4 players any sane GM should be interested in.
flux u make me laugh.i still dont understand the logic/loyalty afforded sam.its easier to fire a coach,go interim the rest of the season if need be mso in the offseason you can get the coach you want.mlse is worth billions and coaching dollars have nothing to do with the cap, so who cares if sam is still owed 6 mill?….its WAY easier AND MAKES WAY MORE SENSE to get rid of sam and have a fresh start mentally vs a player/blockbuster trade shakeup………….WELL,in our case bringing in new players wouldnt be hard,our notepad playbook/d assignment page is easy to learn.(make shats,play hawd,dbl/rotate like no tommorah!)……………i heard jamal was given a 2 inch thick playbook by nellie.
yertu, I hear ya, but – Kapono, Joey, Moon, Hump, Parker, Adams.. someone has to like one of these or a package of some sort. Let’s go BC! Stop sitting on your hands. Marcus Williams wants out of GS, I read. DO SOMETHING you buffoon! Anything! Teams are canning coaches, teams are trading…dear god man how can you look at this roster and keep having faith???!! Stubborn MF!
Andiamo = scroll by.
…lol.figures…flux the capologist should be hired by bc to help orchestrate this big trade.
kapono at 6 mill is possible tradebait.joey,moon,hump,parker and adams will fetch you…nada u doofus….if u combine and try a 3 for 1 we will be under the league imposed min roster requirements.jo is making up a huge number and now with his knee issues thanks to andre 3000 he’ll get no looks.bc wont trade the core…..we’ll adresss the sf/sg in the draft and garbos $ come off the books this season so we’ll have coin to grab a ufa in summer.were handcuffed and this is our roster.thus,sam is the only likely change we can make.
Andiamo has a point. Flux: Joey, Moon, Hump and Parker have some trade value but they can’t form a decent package on their own. You’ll have to throw in a good player to get a good player back and to me at this point it has to be Bargnani which BC is not willing to part with. The only other guy on the team which has decent basketball trade value is Kapono but for the life of me I can’t understand why we would trade him instead of using him properly.
Our best bet for a significant player addition is going over the cap via FA signing in the summer. The only short-term option for BC would have to be to let Mitchell go if for nothing else than to breathe some enthusiasm, direction and plays into this team.
Boko, it was pretty stupid of me to put Mark Jackson at the end of that paragraph after I talked about experience (byproduct of 2AM post) but I actually wouldn’t mind him at all. He garners great respect around the league, seems to be a basketball-mind and looks to put a high value on effort/intensity. As for Avery Johnson, no thanks, I’d rather have Sam.
Arse, you know I am not a tradeologist. I just figure “I guard my stats” Kapono plus any of those or some sort of combination of can bring in someone. It’s more of shake up move then a improvement move, as I am really sick of choker Parker, Kapono or Joey riding pine. It’s believed any of them could be significant contributors on other teams and BC is a salesman, so I am sure he could amp them up. “3 point champ baby! MJ of Europe! Look the body on that Joey kid!” I just want them gone. It’s been long enough.
I understand the Sam argument, I just think that’s a step back and desperate team move. Plus it sends a bad message to others who may want to coach here. Not sure why anyone would either, unless they were looking for a crack at the NBA.
Mr. Jackson? Oh yeah, I can see it now.. “C’mon Kapono, you know you are better then that!!” Every press conference “Well, we know we are better then that” (sound familiar?)
if you watch the boston game again every dead ball or timeout that boston came out of they ran some serious sets to get easy buckets.nice movement,hard screens,,sometimes dbl screens to get looks,nice curls,real nice x n o stuff.jesus had a field day and kapono cant get those style looks?…..whereas we come down and just…freestyle.thats cool for the first 3 qtrs but in the 4th,the pressure,the crowd,these guy get tense and theres mad pressure.brainfarts happen.thats when as a coach,you run a play,it alleviates the pressure of freestyling and players are off the hook and just need to execute the play you drill into them in practice.how many times in the last 4 years do we jack up a shot with 4 seconds on the clock or have 4/5 guys standing around playing hot potato at the top of the key?….its insane….lmao,remember that play last year with tj and hump playing hot potato?…sam,sam,sam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18R1wDEsrl8
we need some comedic relief.this alone should have got sam canned.
oh and in the playoffs,its 4th qtr pressure the whole game and look how weve fared with sam in the playoffs. and btw,we have a slasher/cutter on our team thats been buried by sam the all knowledgeable idiot his name is…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqkYoTTnH7U
When something is just plain hilarious … it’s important to point it out, and accept it, as is … like that vid-clip, right there … ^^^.
LOL, LOL, LOL, : )
Haha…I think BC signed Adams based on that one YouTube vid. That guy is so bad (an fat) he’s an embarassment. I wonder what the scout who thinks Roko and Solomon shouldn’t be in the NBA thinks of Adams. Funny part is that we thought we had gotten a steal when we signed him because NJ was saying that they reaaally would’ve liked to have signed Adams.
I remember that TJ Ford play, it was the night when my dinner came back to me.
All of the problems on this team right now … are easily fixable, if you remove the $21 million per season Jermaine O’Neal is owed.
$21 million is a lot of cash … which should be able to purchase at least 4 serviceable NBA players.
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There’s no way of fixing an illness unless the root cause of the problem can be identified correctly, in the first place.
andi – i agree, adams is probably the key. i mean, they figured he’d be good for some serious minutes, right? so, instead of signing, like, an actual NBA player, they got him. oh wait, they didn’t have any money left, and had to fill out the roster w/ euro-trash rejects that’d sign for the minimum. right, i remember now.
unfortunately, he fucking sucks; if a wing can’t crack THIS lineup, well, that should speak volumes. now i hope he gets 20 minutes of burn tomorrow so he can put on a full display of his repertoire. have you SEEN adams this year? buried is right…lucky he’s just buried on the bench, and not in the parking lot (or under it…i hear smitch has a bit of a temper). i’d like nothing more than to see him contribute something more than comic relief, but i think i’ll wait until i see him on the court not being outplayed by a 3rd-string scrub in garbage time. at least he’s got the T-mac/GWall shoulder thing going, that shit is tight. dig how it matches the headband.
actually, i started dreading the hassan adams era when our virtuoso ‘beat grunt’ d. smith proclaimed that he’d be a key contributor, and would be battling AP for the starting 2 spot by december. with how bad AP’s been, for adams not to get a sniff of ‘real’ court time, just shows how far removed he is from what he was in college, and how much of a reach it was to expect him to come in and contribute.
of course, now he’ll go off. one can dream.
moon is the softest bitch in the l.joey the dumbest….would it hurt to get hassan some minutes.i watched hassan on zona and he was fearless and the leader on that team.why the fuck else would bc get him,to benchwarm?…trust me,if sam and bc did meet,we’ll be seeing more of hassan shortly.
so, i guess they should just trade JO for a backup PG, a wing & a big. i’m sure there are a bunch of GM’s that’d line up to add an currently & oft-injured big to their lineup, while simultaneously depleting same lineup. christ, it’s not like BC can make a trade with himself, and isiah’s outta the league. wonder what mchale’s up to…
with jo out id like to see.
pg calderon
sg hassan
sf parker
pf bosh
c bargs
Arse, is the Bosh spectacle near Gallas proportions?
dynamo is gonna rock arsenal today.
Yertu, you’ve see the Browncats last night. How you feel about DJ Augustin coming to town? Oh, that will be fun.
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re: so, i guess they should just trade JO for a backup PG, a wing & a big. i’m sure there are a bunch of GM’s that’d line up to add an currently & oft-injured big to their lineup, while simultaneously depleting same lineup. christ, it’s not like BC can make a trade with himself, and isiah’s outta the league. wonder what mchale’s up to…
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Unfortunately, when your GM makes a poor decision to acquire a ‘damaged goods’ player to the tune of $21 mill/yr, in return for …
* Your team’s BACK-UP Point Guard [which is where Ford should have been played as a Toronto Raptor]
* Your team’s Back-up Center [which is where Nesterovic should have been played as a Toronto Raptors]
* Your team’s 2008 No. 17 [overall] Draft Pick [which should have been used on a player like CDR, Joey Dorsey, Luc Richard Mbah A Moute, Roy Hibbert, etc.]
not to mention the implications it had on the decisions to (I) BUYOUT JOGE GARBAJOSA and (II) not re-sign Carlos Delfino …
then your team might just be paddling upstream for the next little while, and/or heading straight for TREADMILL STATUS, if it isn’t very, very careful … as one or two astute NBA observers actually suggested during the summer was possibly on the horizon for the Raptors this season given the state of the roster this team had assembled by at that time.
Then, again … of course, I could always be wrong. Right? : )
yeah, augustin played pretty well. made some rookie mistakes, got caught up in the air a fair bit, but he’s got some real quicks, and a good shot. will definitely give jose (or whoever plays PG) some fits. they were playing him with felton a fair bit in the 2nd half yesterday, reminded me a bit of when TJ & jose played together; both DJ & felton went for over 20 with excellent (i mean, really excellent) shooting %’s. the game itself was so disjointed & lacked any kind of flow, it was hard to get a read on whether the bobbies played well, or if the sixers were just stinky. i’m inclined to think the latter. okafor was only ok in the post defensively, and doesn’t have any semblance of an offensive game. dudley was ok. ditto for wallace. it was their guard play that surprised me. jrich didn’t dress, not sure if he’s a go for tomorrow or not…given AP’s struggles, let’s hope not.
not possible. i do enjoy reading comments like these. in no way to they make you seem egotistical or anything. i’m glad that we’ve come to a consensus on the ‘problem.’ any ideas for possible ’solutions,’ or is the game we play to simply wait & see what happens, then criticize after-the-fact? and please, let’s keep the personnel changes realistic (i.e. no TJ for carney straight-up BS).
thanks.
Doug Smith said awhile back that Adams showed up to training camp out of shape and then got hurt which maybe helps to explain why he’s been buried so deep on the bench. Maybe it’s time to let him show what he can do now (if anything) given that it’s not like anybody has been tearing it up in front of him.
I have little interest in concensus … e.g. see the recent work of Malcolm Gladwell … or what others might perceive to be egotistical, or realistic b.s.
Everything in life becomes after-the-fact … if what you choose to do instead is refuse to read what others have written, in advance, on their web site/blog or elsewhere on-line.
That’s a choice for you to make, my friend.
[it's an interesting dilemma you then set up for yourself when you (i) poo-poo what someone else has to say about something in advance, as mere crystal-ball-gazing, Nostrodamus-like, as well as, then (ii) condemn what they also have to say after the event itself has taken place, as mere after-the-fact criticism]
In general, I have little time for ‘Lose-Lose’ practicioners. : )
Reality Check:
1. What did you think would happen to the Raptors with 5 new players?
2. What did you think would happen with only two starter quality players?
3. What did you think would happen once JO went down to injury?
4. What did you think would happen with no NBA quality bench?
5. What did you think would happen in the strengthened Atlantic division?
6. What did you think would happen once opponents figured out the Raptors?
These are not hindsight observations because most of these points were mentioned in passing, by myself and others. Put them all together and what do you have …??!!!
Oh, and btw … what did you think when Mitchell told the media at the start of the regular season that this Raptor team was not “athletic” but was “basketball-wise”? When I heard this I concluded Sam had assessed this team roster and came to the conclusion this was going to be a difficult season. Now that Sam just sits on the bench and doesn’t blow a gasket because of something “basketball-dumb” must indicate that he has given up, and I doubt a new coach can remedy the problems and produce results. Perhaps BC is going to force Sam to stay on as coach because it’s doubtful he can find a replacement … and that’s why Sam has toned down. Ya think …??!!!
Reality has also bitch-slapped Bosh after the last game, and, after devoting 5 years to the Raptors, he now realizes the team may be a bust. Also, once KG and Allen stacked the Celtics, that diminished the rest of the rest of the division. Under these circumstances Bosh must protect his stats, his health and his sanity until 2010. I suspect Bosh would welcome a trade now .. wouldn’t you if you were him???
They thought:
1. 2nd in the East, baby!
2. Finals, here we come!
3. Played only 6 games his whole career – will not happen!
4. That c*nt TJ is gone and Jose is an All-Star; we don’t need a bench!
5. Contenders!
Bosh sent a message to the rest of the L, with his actions vs. the Celtics. – “I don’t want to be here, someone get me outta this place”.
And KG was only planting a seed, with what he said. Bosh with Celtics, 2010.
Flux,
I disagree with that perception of Bosh’s actions on Sunday.
Chris was not sending a message to anyone else.
Chris was expressing his personal frustration at the way in which HE was letting himself and his teammates down, getting dominated by Garnett.
Others need to read the situation correctly, in the first place, and not make inaccurate guesses at what it is they think Chris’ actions might have shown about his feelings towards the ‘current situation’ with the Raptors organization, as a whole.
Mis-diagnosis of the problems with the Raptors has been a consistent issue with this team … from the team’s internal braintrust, to what’s said on their different broadcasts pre-, in and post game [describing the action on the floor inaccurately], to some members of the local & national media, and of course the many vocal supporters who express their opinions on-line in a rabid way.
khan – i’ve simply lost track of how many times you’ve pointed out that you were one of the few/only people with the foresight in the summer to determine that the moves made would be an unequivocal failure. i bow to you. you are a true visionary. i will study with great focus your next proclamation, and agree wholeheartedly with it, as there really is no other alternative. i’m so glad i have you in my (internet) life to guide me through these rough times. it’s fortunate that we can all share in your insight, and learn to better ourselves.
if i may be so bold to ask – what do you foresee happening with this team? bear in mind, i’m not asking you what SHOULD be done, or what YOU would do as GM (or what you would have done back whenever)…just what you think will actually happen. actually, that’d be a good little comparo – state what WILL happen, and then counter with what SHOULD happen, if you ran the show. i want to know IN ADVANCE, so i can prepare myself.
thanks, your BFF, 2dam.
‘Chris was expressing his personal frustration at the way in which HE was letting himself and his teammates down, getting dominated by Garnett.
Others need to read the situation correctly, in the first place, and not make inaccurate guesses at what it is they think Chris’ actions might have shown about his feelings towards the ‘current situation’ with the Raptors organization, as a whole.’
really? how do you know that? aren’t you making the assumption that you’re reading the situation correctly? couldn’t your contention be construed just as easily as an ‘inaccurate guess?’ are you a part of the team? ARE YOU CHRIS BOSH!!?!??!
sigh. if only i could see.
‘many vocal supporters who express their opinions on-line in a rabid way.’
not that you’re one of ‘those’ people.
I think if the Raptors were to try to trade Jason Kapono, they’d find his trade value to closer to – expiring contract and perhaps a serviceable low level role player or low level prospect (2nd rounder type) – rather than – a good role player. His contract and flaws will limit the number of squads that are interested in him, and limit the quality of the offers that the club receive.
That’s not necessarily bad. Trading Kapono for an expiring contract means the club can spend the full MLE next summer and acquire a better player than Kapono with that MLE. It’s a good situation, a good trade option for Colangelo.
Khandor,
with all due respect, weather either of us is reading his reaction correctly, is indeterminable, as we are not mind readers. Chris can say what he wants to the media, to me it’s just a PR game. It is worth noting, however, that he changed his tune from we to me over the last two days. His last comments didn’t even seen genuine.. more like something Sam told him to say or said to him.
IMO, (and due to the way he has been talking about his game since the Olympics, the way he has been “calling out” his team mates) he doesn’t believe for a second there is anything wrong with his game. He considers himself an MVP and elite player in the NBA, from the numerous interviews I have read, and any failures that occur around him or reflect on him are a result of his team mates/coach failing him. Very KG-like in Minny (and why KG might have said what he said) “get me some players around here”.
Just my opinion, inaccurate as always. : )
Watch the tape again.
When Chris slammed that ball down … the person he was most angry with was himself, because he knew instictively that THE person who was responsible for providing help on the baseline drive by Ray Allen, which went around Anthony Parker and below Kris Humphries [who was shielded away from helping by Kendrick Perkins], was none other than CHRIS BOSH, himself … who neither blocked Ray Ray’s layup, drew the charge, nor came hard and quickly enough off Garnett [positioned along the Right Baseline] to force an extra pass which Jose Calderon might then have been able to rotate down to help-the-helper on, etc., etc., etc.
The correct answers are always to be found, in the videotape … if/when you know what it is you’re looking for, in the first place.
Others need to read what Dave just wrote.
FACT IS … Dave and I do not always agree on every aspect of the NBA game.
That said … the FACT IS … Dave is someone with a keen eye for NBA hoops and knows what he’s talking about when he makes a comment on a blog like this one.
If that’s the case… that’s a major over reaction over one play. Again, without arguing that particular play, I respectfully disagree. I’ve been watching his reactions on the bench, his expressions after losses (where he has had good games) and I am simply led to believe what I wrote above.
Malcolm Gladwell would fire Sam Mitchell.
yeah, we can watch the tape, and still come to different conclusions. you have your opinion, others have theirs. i just wonder what makes you think yours is ‘more accurate?’ i’m sure bosh was pissed with himself on that play, but i think it was simply exacerbated by the inability of the perimeter D to put up any kind of front. to wit, he was fed up, with himself, teammates, coach, the celtics, whatever. you’ve broken down the play very well, but i get the feeling that you’ve either never been in that situation (where your teammates suck shit, and you’re the ‘guy’ who’s supposed to bail them out), or you have, but it’s been a long time. i’m not trying to pass judgement, i’m just trying to figure out how you can determine someone else’s thought process/emotions via tape. we all see the same reaction from chris, whether he was angry with himself or his teammates is something only he can know.
Yertu, perhaps you need to spend some time reading the blog’s of others who you poo-poo instead. It’s there for you to see … in black & white, and sometimes colour … if you so desire.
In your opinion, What should be someone else’s motivation for repeating here everything which has already been said, in advance, elsewhere?
… and, which you and others have been too lazy or lacking in curiosity to explore further, of your own volition? As I said before, I have little interest in Lose-Lose practicioners [or machinations]. : )
With regards to Chris Bosh:
What I see here mirrors a similar situation with another (former) Raptor all-star. Now I know that my opinion of what went wrong during Vince Carter’s last few years in Toronto definitely does not adhere to the mainstream view. However, I hope we can all agree that, before Vince became a quitter and stopped penetrating the paint, Vince felt that he needed some help, some quality supporing players to alleviate some of the pressure he was feeling night in and night out, being depended on to score and carry the team. Before I get attacked on this point, I need to point out that Vince thrived in New Jersey’s system precisely because he was able to accept a role as a secondary scorer. The Raptors organization failed Vince BEFORE Vince decided to quit. Had we drafted an NBA ready Dwayne Wade over CB4, we have an all star back court and Vince never leaves.
Now, someone above stated that Bosh is going to have to start managing his stats, watching his health, etc… in preparation for 2010. The similarities are prevelant in my opinion. I would even argue that CB4 has a better supporting cast that Vince did.
Thoughts?
khan…i actually have no interest in what you have to say, either here or on your wonderful blog. i certainly don’t want you to repeat yourself (though you seem to do so on your own quite readily).
why is it that your opinion is the only one that matters to you? have you sought help for this condition? it makes any kind of dialogue a complete waste of time…you simply do not have the capacity to entertain anyone else’s perspective/PoV/opinion. anyone who can’t see it ‘your way’ is lumped into the shallow end of the gene pool, their opinions ignored, no matter how fact-based or rational, if they also happen to differentiate from your own.
of course, that’s just my opinion. others are free to feel differently, as are you.
it’s interesting…these comments tend to stay on track until you get involved, then they diverge into these meaningless tangents. how odd.
andiamo – i agree, gladwell wouldn’t have much patience with a guy like smitch. smitch doesn’t seem the type “to find new ways of playing.” literally & figuratively. not saying smitch should be fired, ’cause i really don’t see how that does anything to improve the team, especially considering who’s out there as a replacement.
Flux,
I don’t think Chris’ reaction was based just on that one play. It was based on how he was feeling about the way HE was performing on every play vs Garnett, to that point, in that game.
He was simply being dominated by a better elite level basketball player, for which he had no answer … yet, and he didn’t like it one bit.
Would you? Would anyone, who thinks of himself as an elite level performer, on the cusp of stardom?
——————————–
In my book, Chris is a special, special player in the NBA … but it isn’t because he’s a better basketball player than Kevin Garnett.
——————————–
Q1. Am I just guessing too when I make my observations about Chris’s reaction, in this situation?
A1. Yes, of course, I am.
But when the next day arrives and Chris Bosh tells others, in his own words, what he was feeling in that game … and it’s consistent with my interpretation of his actions, then perhaps that puts a slightly different spin on the value of my opinion, in comparison with others, in the first place.
That’s not for me to judge, however.
All I do, is calls ‘em as I sees ‘em … whether they are right or not, is for time to determine.
lester… I was tempted to venture into the same argumentative waters, but refrained. Interested to see what other think as well.
——————————–
re: why is it that your opinion is the only one that matters to you? have you sought help for this condition? it makes any kind of dialogue a complete waste of time…you simply do not have the capacity to entertain anyone else’s perspective/PoV/opinion. anyone who can’t see it ‘your way’ is lumped into the shallow end of the gene pool, their opinions ignored, no matter how fact-based or rational, if they also happen to differentiate from your own – by yertu
——————————–
Read what I wrote about Dave. : )
LOL …
Read what I’ve written about Uncle Charley.
LOL …
Read what I’ve written about Grange.
LOL …
Read what I’ve written about Feschuk.
LOL …
Read what I’ve written about Kelly Dwyer, etc., etc., etc., …
LOL, LOL, LOL : )
Khandor, I knew that, in part, you were basing your opinion on what Chris said. It’s the reason why I mentioned that I don’t trust what he (or any player) says to the media. And, you should know, I am not knocking your opinion, just disagreeing, that’s all.
Agreed, he was frustrated (with whatever). But he should have realized his reaction was not appropriate in any way. Being as self-aware as he seems to be, I am therefore led to believe the reaction was purposeful (fully aware of what he was doing) and message containing.
lesterbain,
If the Raptors’ brain-trust fails Chris Bosh, in a similar way to which it failed Wince Carter, and it failed Mats Sundin on the Maple Leafs side of the operation … then, IMO, Chris Bosh would have every right to leave and seek employment elsewhere when his current contract expires.
Until then … it’s his job to play hard each and every day for this franchise, trying to make things better.
That’s part of what being a ‘pro’ is all about.
naaah.
Look at Minnosota, Clippers, Hell the Blue Jays.
It isn’t the players or managers that are losing games here. It isn’t the Gm. It comes down to ownership. And with MLSE is it any wonder why every year we see the same mediocre product? Open your eyes. There job was to hire someone who is “proven” and they hire a rookie in Colangelo who built a severley flawed team. I think peddie saw that he was a genius with numbers and they loved that aspect.
This is the ownership that wont go into Luxury Tax territory.
This is the ownership that hired JFJ and Babcock
This is the ownership that raises ticket prices left and right. Were not the Lakers were the increase is justified.
This is the ownership that allowed a Tv network to broadcast there own
Raptors games on a secondary network that no on in Toronto has. Why don’t they sue TSN or attempted too? Because they signed a contract with them knowing they would dispose of the games that’s why.
And now is it any wonder why were in deep hole?
Mats Sundin failed us we offered him alot of money but he’s undecided. Never liked him he was extremely overrated and didn’t win a single thing in his NHL career. He did nothing more then pad his stats on a bad team and when he was injured the Leafs prospered. Gary Roberts was the real leader of the team as well as Tie Domi
Flux,
Never worry that I think you might be taking a shot at me.
A. I move pretty quickly and am a difficult target to hit;
[fundamentally, basketball is a game of quickness : ) ]
and,
B. I know where you’re coming from … : ) … and, that we can and should disagree from time to time [or a lot] with one another about how each of us see/interpret a specific situation.
——————————–
I see nothing wrong at all … with someone else saying that they think I’m wrong about something.
Time will tell, if I am or not.
——————————–
After Bosh’s actions during that time-out, which were, interestingly enough, not shown on the broadcasts I’ve seen to this point [but were only referenced by Elliot Friedman, in the form of providing his interpretation of what it was Chris Bosh actually did during those moments on the sideline] … what I saw on the court from him was:
* A strong commitment to run the floor hard in transition [both on O & on D];
* Verbal Communication with his teammates [notably with Calderon immediately after the play resumed];
* A strong commitment to compete hard in the half-court [both on O & on D]; and,
* A sense of oneness with his teammates, on the court and on the bench.
I did not see evidence of a separation between Chris and any of the other Raptors.
Then … when I saw this vid-clip … Chris Bosh interview, Nov 23 2008
I do not see any evidence of the type of frustration with the organization that others are suggesting they see from Chris Bosh, in the aftermath of Sunday’s debacle.
What I see and hear, for myself, in that clip … is a young player who is continuing to mature in his understanding of himself, and his team, the Toronto Raptors.
“We tried … they [Boston] kicked our butts … I’m looking forward to Wednesday … they’re a good team, they won the championship, yeah, they’re pretty good” …
- Chris Bosh [Captain, Toronto Raptors]
Flux-what aspect of the argument made you hesitant?
I know the Vince issue is still a sore spot because of the way he left and the comments he made. However, we need to remove ourselves from being fan’s for a moment and analyze what happenned. Not every great player is capable of competing on the mental level that AI, Tim Duncan, LBJ and others are able to compete at on a nightly basis. I beleive it was the organization’s responsibility to address this issue and to get Vince some help, rather than to expect him to become a fearless penetrator like AI. Vince didn’t see the point in killing himself everynight and taking a beating (he’s clearly soft like that). Now while others will argue that it’s his job to care, that’s not reality and does not adhere to the real world notion of incentives. To me, this is the point where the Vince situtaion begins to look a lot like the current one.
It is important to learn from history. So, in an attempt for all of us on this truly fantastic blog (shout outs long overdue to Arse…I truly enjoy your dedicated posts) to assess history and apply its lessons to our current situation, we first need to agree that I do have the facts straight.
I know Chris is a great player but lets be honest here, he puts godly numbers against the weakest teams in the League. Its a fact no sugarcoating things. Kevin and Rasheed, Duncan, Boozer, and now Pau and Bynum will have his number. That is not good. Its almost embarrasing
Khandor,
Well, he did spend a considerable amount of time shooting reverse buckets under the basket after slamming the ball, during the start of the timeout.
We did see him approaching the bench and then stepping away, at least once. (unless, I am confusing it with another time out, where Hassan Adams is attempting to speak with him or giving us his best cow chewing impersonation) And there is little reason to believe the sideline reporter would lie about, seemingly, facts. It’s not as he was expressing his opinion about what conversations Jose was trying to have with him. It was that individuals attempted to speak with him and he was having “none of it.” Not only that, but other members of the media have reported the same conduct from Bosh during that period in time, further leading us to believe it was not only one man’s opinion.
Lester, I agree with you.. the question becomes how much weight do we put on Chris’ actions? IMO, if the losing continues, this episode will mark the beginning of a VC type exit.
Joe,
It’s only embarassing for those who think that CB4’s primary [only?] value to his team is as a big-time scorer.
IMO … this is not the main source of Chris’ contribution to an elite level basketball team.
i.e. If CB4 is a starting member of an elite level basketball team, either in the NBA or in the Olympics/World Championships … Chris Bosh’ best contributions will not be as a scorer, they will be as a rebounder, team defender, passer, outstanding-character-guy, who just happens to be able to score the ball fairly well, if he’s in the right match-up situation.
——————-
IMO … Kevin Garnett is a better basketball player than Chris Bosh is … but, that said, Chris Bosh is still plenty good enough to win with, if a team is able to surround him with the type of teammates he needs to succeed with, which are not necessarily the same types of teammates that a player like KG needed to have on his team before he could lead them to a NBA championship, like he did in Boston, last season, but was unable to do in Minnesota for years and years, before that, without the teammates and the coaching staff and the GM and the ownership, etc., he found in Beantown.
why wince is still a sore. a festering sore.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050216
but i’m sure that’s all a bunch of BS.
Here are Bosh’s stats versus good teams and versus bad teams from last year.
Playoff teams – 38 minutes, 23.6ppg, 8.7rpg, 2.6apg, 48% FG%, almost 9 FTs a game
Lottery teams – 35 minutes, 21.1ppg, 8.7rpg, 2.6apg, 50% FG%, 8 free throws per game
Flux,
I’m not saying that Elliot, or other members of the media, might be ‘telling a lie’ here … only that the Toronto media has a tendency to interpret the actions of NBA players in a different way than what my personal experience tells me is necessarily how those players are thinking and feeling at the time when they engage in said actions.
Dave,
Thanks for those stats.
Do you also have them broken down further into ‘Wins vs Losses’ within each of those two categories? And/or, when he was matched up against a specific player on the opposition with a superior or similar skill set to his, as an under-sized Big, in the NBA [e.g. Garnett, Rasheed, Duncan, Stoudemire, Boozer, Biedrins], as opposed to vs everybody else?
I think Vince got plenty of help while he was here. I mean, the Raps got guys like Oakley, Antonio Davis, and some other decent role players. Not every year is going to be good for a franchise, unless your allstar is incredibly good. Vince got help, made the playoffs, but then the Raps made some questionable decisions (combined with VC injuries) that put the team in a spiral. Frankly, if VC had acted like a paid professional, maybe the team would have won more games. Plus, if he had stuck around, we might have a solid team built around Carter, Bosh, and Calderon. But he decided to be a baby and also forgot that basketball is his JOB.
I hope Bosh doesn’t turn out like VC, and I don’t think he will. Although it’s tough to tell. Frankly, I think we might be panicking about Bosh leaving or getting angry after just a quarter of a season. If the Raps win the next two games, all will be forgotten. Until we get destroyed by 30 or 40 points by the Lakers. Looking foward to that…
Khandor,in all your wisdom,who will Bosh be playing for after 2010 ?….in one sentence please
Were not going to win the west coast Trip. Those are well coached teams with actual NBA players. Maybe we can catch one in Denver but Chauncey is doing wonders for that team. If I were Sam and I got to have a Chat with BC I would tell him straight up, the players are inadequate and we simply cannot compete with the top dogs. There all jump shooters that are mentally weak and don’t play defense. I don’t see how a coaching change would help.
Khandor, yeah, but I think the sideline reporter reported what he saw and left it up to us to interpret the “why he is acting that way”. And the thing is, IMO, it’s more conceivable that Bosh is frustrated with the team and it’s players, much like the majority of the fans are, then him simply being frustrated at his “bad performance” vs KG. If the team was doing well and he was getting “worked” and that happened, I’d be inclined to agree with you. Things being the way they are, I am leaning of him being upset with the situation he is in.
One thing to keep in mind with players staying or going is the “What if I don’t leave?” If things do not get considerably better by 2010 (EC Finals, Finals) his option is to stay and then wonder what could have been. Especially if the teams that court him do well. If he leaves, and things don’t go well, at least he will know he tried something different.
Khandor,
You can check head-to-head player stats over at Basketball-Reference.com and see how Bosh does when he plays against a specific player, and how that player does against him. Say the head-to-head matchups of Bosh vs KG.
They give you (1) the overall matchup stats, the totals and per game averages (2) and the one line box score from each meeting for both players (3) and tell you which team won and lost.
For example: KG and Bosh have played 12 times and split those contests, winning 6 apiece. KG has averaged 20.6ppg, 11rpg, 4.6apg on 48% shooting to Bosh’s 16.3ppg, 9rpg, 46% shooting. That includes young Bosh’s games against KG. If you look down the list you can see a couple of shocking performances, but aside from those, in most of the matchups they’re evenly matched.
So whichever matchups you’re interested in you can find there.
Go to basketball-reference.com – the full court section – head2headfinder.
The stats I was using (the previous ones – playoff/lottery) are incomplete for W-L. Not much use I’m afraid.
get messina here asap …
he’s good enough to make a fast adjustment
very fast
congrats today arse.
A “scout” that don’t wanna be named? Not that whats said is not true but doesn’t this sound like the globe an mail writer of dat story just wanted to express his own opinion and back it up by “experts” ? (dont we all hope for that on forums:)
I could never put Solomon and Ukic in the same bag. Solomon plain out sux and if you look at all the season games so far, except for the last game, he played double roko’s playing time while absolutely confirming everything “unnamed scout” said. second of all he’s 34 years old for God’s sakes and is not a rookie by no means.
Ukic, in his minimal time on the floor, sometimes under 5 mins/ game, did fine with some unecessary TO’s but actually in the games I saw, uplifted the team. He’s clearly better than Salomon but is not played to his full potential. IMO Mitchell flat-out has a grudge vs Ukic and instead of developping young players plays solomon who dont bring nothing to the table. Roko is young but in past has been given enormous tasks and confidence at early age, a starting PG of all of his ex-teams and on a Euroleague team that kept up and almost beat the raptors a year ago. He wasnt just drafted yesterday people…. It’s been a while Raptors were pursuing Ukic and they knew what they r getting (people that followed him know) but I don’t get the point of bringing him and then treating him like this.
Andiamo – thanks.
I don’t know Money, Grange is pretty respectable, certainly more than the other guy. He doesn’t write stuff just to get cheap reads. I tend to believe him.
Solomon definitely shouldn’t be in the NBA, Roko’s good enough to stay here. I know you got a Croatian connection with your boy Ukic so you’re not exactly impartial. Roko is the better player with a higher upside, once he gets his shot right and gets more playing time I think he’ll be a serviceable NBA player. The Raptors need to give him the backup PG minutes because at least it’ll count as an investment rather than giving them away to Will who’s likely not going to be with the team next year, if not sooner.
Don’t buy the “Sam hates Roko” rap either, I think Sam’s giving both of them an equal opportunity and since he’s a defense-type guy he probably likes Roko more than Will. Bottom line is right now in their careers they both have big time issues contributing consistently and ideally they would be 3rd string netting about 10 minutes a game at the SG/PG spot.
money – if it appears smitch ‘hates’ roko, it’s probably because it’s a style that seems to have worked pretty well w/ jose…he rode him pretty hard during his rookie year too. roko could very well be a fine NBA PG, only time will tell. to expect him to be getting much burn so early in his rookie year is unreasonable (though swill’s play is making it less so, and i’d be shocked if roko didn’t start stealing his minutes if he keeps it up). all that being said – your focus is dominated by one player. the 3rd string PG. maybe soon it’ll be the backup PG. it’s not exactly been a banner start for either will or roko, so i’m not sure why you think it’s such a big deal that one is getting minutes over the other. except, of course, because he’s a fellow croatian. it’s as genuine as the hard-core italians claiming bargnani’s the second coming…
and swill is 30.
rapTO posted this link, which i thought was cute:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8842316/Court-Awareness:-Sunday
thoughts? any chance the writer’s actually watched any raptor games?
haha, that’s a marty york special (creating a ’source’ to credit for a rumour he started). it’s why he writes for metro.
lol Watching the Cavs Knicks game. What a disaster taking place. Why would New York gutter there team with that trade. Salary dump sure but now Lebron would want to come to New York and be a bottom feeder? How is he going to win a chip with that cast? The guys already a megastar he doesn’t need New York, they need him. If I’m James, I stay in Ohio since It’s my home state and watch Amare, Bosh, Wade, Dirk one of those guys will sure follow to play with him.
lol at these idiots who think new York is the big stage. What superstar has ever signed there in the last 20 years? Why has there team been mediocre for the last 10 years? Lebron or Wade or Paul can play in Oklahoma City and the team will get national coverage on ESPN all day everyday.
d279,
re: Khandor,in all your wisdom, who will Bosh be playing for after 2010 ?….in one sentence please
Contrary to what you might have been told by certain other parties, what I do does not involve making specious guesses at what will happen 3 years in the future. : )
Flux, IMO, it’s actually the opposite of that specific take. Based on my experience, it’s quite likely that, if the Raptors [as a team] had been playing well against the Celtics while Chris Bosh was playing poorly [as an individual, matched-up vs Garnett], CB4 would have been able to look past THAT [in a mature way] and would have focused instead on the team’s success, as a whole.
It’s when the team is playing poorly [as a group], however, against an outfit like the Celtics in part BECAUSE Bosh is also getting dominated by his check [as an individual, matched-up vs Garnett], that the type of personal-focused frustration which was on display Sunday has the chance to spill out [uncharacteristically-?] from a still young person like the Raptors’ ‘Captain’.
Character players like Bosh and Calderon and Parker and Kapono, etc., … really do care about what happens to the team, first and foremost.
Dave, Thanks for the directional point.
Joe, did you watch Ahmad Rashad with those two clowns interview Spike Lee. If anyone thought Barkley was dense get a load of C Webb and Gary Payton, nothing in this world can beat their stupidity. Ahmad Rashad sounds like Einstein compared to those two.
NY thinks players are attracted to them because they happen to have celebrities in the crowd. Bunch of quacks.
arse – i can’t watch those two asses for more than 5 seconds before scrambling for the mute button (or a fork to stick in my ears). just horrible. beyond horrible. traveshamockery of broadcasting. the fact they make rashad look like einstein is really saying something, considering ahmad is probably the biggest suck-ass to ever pick up a mic. some of his ‘hard-hitting’ questions are classic.
watching the suns get beat by OKC. the suns just don’t look like they’re having any fun.
why would super-duper megastars, in their mid-twenties, with all the money they (or anyone in their family) will ever need, find NY an appealing place to play/live? i can’t possibly imagine.
joe – in case you haven’t noticed, the knicks, while certainly playing like shit tonight, are actually rebuilding the team. the players on the team now will not necessarily be on the team in ‘10, when they make the push for bron-bron. as the celts showed last year, it doesn’t take long to go from joke to contender, if the right pieces are added.
I understand the mind-set that NY is going for, trying to get that super-mega star, but is it really fair to the fans for such blatant rebuilding for the next two years. The hope is not even there anymore until the summer of 2010
IMO, Chris Webber is a highly intelligent and articulate former NBA player who has a bright future ahead of him as an in-studio analyst, ala Sir Charles. Chris is a versatile conversationalist who can fit into a variety of different environments seamlessly.
The Glove, on the other hand … needs to find himself a new gig, along with Eric Snow and, say, Alaa Abdelnaby as, perhaps, the anti-version of TNT’s ‘T-Mobil-At-the-Half’ & ‘Inside-the-NBA’ … e.g. ‘The Lost Boyz Outside the NBA’ … where as solid pro’s like Ernie Johnson, Kenny Smith and the Chuckster have me ROTFLOL, on the regular, to go with their ‘comedic inter-play’ and nodding my head in affirmation with their ‘former-player-takes-on-how-it-actually-works-in-the-NBA’.
Dino, if fans see a light at the end of the tunnel they’ll be willing to suffer as long as the team’s playing hard for that duration. At least that’s the case for me. If Lebron’s that light I don’t think any Knick fan will mind. Spike Lee in his interview said that he talked to Lebron (at the TIFF, apparently LBJ had a movie there) who said if he leaves it’ll be to a team which will already have pieces to contend, I don’t think the Knicks fall into that category.
but Arsenalist, what if LeBron doesn’t come? What if no star free-agent came to Madison Square? These questions may become more realistic if (as you said) NY doesn’t have the pieces to contend.
If that happens and i were to be a NYK fan, I would be crushed. The Knicks would be stuck in perpetual pre-mediocrity; always sriving to land that next big star by keeping the cap well, but the star does not want to come because the knicks have no talent. It’s almost as bad a position as when they were severly over the cap.
I hope for the sake of the franchise they have a plan more solid than ‘i hope lebron or star x will sign for us in 2010′
yertu damkule:
I realize that NY is trying to rebuild and shed salary for James in 2010. But it wont be a finished product anytime soon and New York fans are naive to think that Lebron will Leave his home since he was born to come to a rebuilding and gutted Knicks team with no direction currently in place. If I’m an NBA free agent who already has millions put away, I want to be the final piece on a championship caliber team. Im looking for the finished product. Unless New York can sign Boozer next summer, it’s career suicide on Lebrons part.
If I’m Lebron these are my options. These teams are already contenders and just need that final piece to contend for years.
Cleveland
Detroit
Portland
Lakers
Utah
New Orleans
Fully stacked teams and have superior coaching and ownership.
My favorite New Orleans:
Paul
Posey/Peterson
Lebron/Peja
West
Chandler
Portland:
Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Lebron/Batum
Aldridge
Oden
khandor and arsenal ,I’m from the same city as Ukic, he went to my primary school (he’s 5 years younger tho) and his family lives 2 blocks down from mine, so you can see why I’m biased and this year basically watch raptors to see how it goes for him.
That said, I’m not his groupie nor do I think he should be granted something without hard work and proving himself on the court.
Also don’t expect no immediate impact or some R-O-Y performance from him, roko is just ok not an extraordinary player like lets say Drazen Petrovic or Kukoc but i think he has potential to be a descent NBA player.
Just a little surprised to see how Ukic is 3rd on the depth chart at PG position this year while i was certain he’d be Calderon’s back up. He waited for a while before coming to NBA, making sure he gets some ok minutes.
At the start of the season, I thought he got bumped by a superior player but then again Solomon is no good and is making half Roko’s money so i just dont get the point. Thats all….
As far as raptors go, I said it be4, been losely following raptors in the past and mostly this year. What gets me is how many people in canadian papers and sites like these blame the raptors lethargic play this year on back up PG position while that has nothing to do with it. Havent seen a game raptors lost because of inadequate back up PG. I mean you knew these two guys are rooks and you can blame anything on them.
It falls more in the starter department whose play really fell off this year + badly composed roster missing alrdy established reliable back ups SG-SF-C on the bench.
BTW bargnani second coming lol. I played junior U-18 national team back home and then NCAA div II ball in college on a schoolarship…played bargnani in a tournament and always will maintain my opinion that he’s just a tree on the court that you can walk around on your way to the basket. If he wasn so tall he would never get that 3 off and thats all he has, has no D , rebounds just if it falls in his hand and play good defense on the guy ,he gets scared. if toronto wasnt picking first hed never be even in first 15 on the draft. ok maybe a little harsh but that guy is slow, confused ..and slow:) man am i harsh
MoneyCarlo,
In general terms, I agree with your assessment of both Roko Ukic and Andrea Bargnani.
Two points of dissent, however:
1. Unlike the Calderon of three years ago, Ukic is a much younger player, and someone who is far behind where he needs to be at this time, as a passable shooter, in order to warrant getting major minutes as Jose’ back-up. IMO, this does not take away from his long term prospects as a very serviceable PG, down-the-road in the NBA. IMO, Roko would be best-served right now playing in the D-League this season [similar to what Mike Taylor did last season].
[Aside: If there's a young player who I've been wrong about so far this season, it's been Mike Taylor, who has played better than I initially thought he would after seeing one of his vid-clips from the D-League. Based on what I've now seen from him, in the NBA, this season, the chances are pretty good that he is going to stick around at this level for several more years, as a solid back-up PG.]
2. The fact is … Bargnani is the height & size he is, which should allow him to carve out a solid career for himself in the NBA as a serviceable perimeter Big who can shoot the 3-ball and hold his ground in the Low Post on defense, similar to Bill Laimbeer.
3. The only time a back-up PG in the NBA does NOT have a direct effect on a team’s W-L record is when that team’s starting PG is also playing 90% of the available minutes at that spot on a game-to-game basis. In general, the back-up PG spot is a vital role for High End teams in the NBA, given how the game is played at this level of competition, where the difference between winning & losing is paper thin.
sorry … that should read as three points of dissent : )
so hype roko and shit on andrea,lmfao.welcome to raptorworld.
lol…bill laimbeer.
khan – when you speak in terms of roko being a ‘much younger’ player than jose was 3 years ago, i assume you’re speaking of basketball maturity, and not actual age. since 3 years ago, jose was also 24. and also had a pretty horrific jumper. and looked very much like babe in the woods. in all honesty, i had serious doubts as to whether he’d be able to ‘make it’ at this level. he definitely showed flashes that year, but also enough deficiencies in his game to make me wonder. i know you had him pegged for stardom quite some time ago, but i’m just a bit slower, as we all know.
money – can’t disagree more that back-up PG isn’t important, nor with the assertion that the poor play out of that position hasn’t directly led to a loss (witness the orlando debacle…’what are you doing?’…as example 1). even now, with jose at, what, 75%, he’s playing way more than he should because of the lack of depth/experience/competence of swill/roko, and it’s costing the team. i’m not pinning the blame on swill or roko, at least not entirely, cause they either aren’t good enough (swill), or aren’t good enough YET (roko) – this lies w/ BC.
as for andrea…as many know, i’ve been an advocate of trading him to shore up the wing positions, either the 2 or 3 (or if lucky, both). some take this to mean i think he sucks, or lacks potential…which isn’t the case at all. i do think he has potential – just not to become the ‘cornerstone’ of an organization. he’s got the mental make-up of a secondary offensive option, not a go-to guy. my fear is that while they develop him into such a player, the raps continue to remain stagnant, and their true franchise player decides to walk in ‘10…and anyone who think bosh is interested in sticking around then after years of treading water & watching all the teams around him improve, are sadly mistaken.
with the acquisition of JO, BC was trying to do two things – create space for re-signing bosh in ‘10, with enough left over to lure a mid-level FA here, all the while allowing bargs to develop, while at the same time, convince bosh that he was serious about building a contender NOW by making a big splash. it’s basically the same plan as many teams who are sacrificing the next two years in order to sign away one of those FAs…except the expectations for the raps are higher (meaning they likely won’t be able to build through the draft), and the ‘big’ FA they’re trying to sign will be their own. basically, they’re pinning the future on whether bargs becomes an impact player, that they’ll be able to re-sign bosh, and fill out the rest of the roster with guys who can contribute on an NBA level.
yertu,
Yes, ‘much younger’ refers to specific aspects of Roko’s individual game, at this stage of his career. For example, Chris Paul, at 23 years age, today, already has a much older/more mature game, for a PG in the NBA, than Ukic [24] does. In terms of his understanding of the position, physical development, and shot mechanics, Calderon at 24, was light years ahead of where Roko is today.
can we get to 100…
khan – ok, agree. it’s funny, with some of the younger young stars, they’ve been around for a few years, and play at such a high level, you forget that they’re still young. guys who seem to have been around forever, but who are still very young, and have yet to enter the traditional ‘prime’ periods of their careers.
yertu,
re: young stars in the NBA
Personally, what I think we’re seeing today is the renaissance of the NBA game, ala the early 1980’s.
The Celtics and the Lakers have returned to the top of the heap, no doubt … team basketball is back in a big way … and, with the number of other high calibre players spread across the League today, plus the actual number of middle-of-the-pack-to-high-end teams … there are tonnes of really terrific games being played every single day in the NBA, with a lot more open access now compared to what was available back then.