Calderon overplayed Rondo all afternoon and got burned.Silly me, I was thinking that with the crowd ready to explode behind them the Raptors would come out with energy, passion and a killer-instinct against the Champs. I figured they’d be looking to erase NJ from their memory and do whatever it takes to match the C*ntics in every category, especially effort. Nobody expected them to win this game, all we wanted was an honest effort and maybe a game plan. Turns out everybody took the afternoon off leaving me to wonder which team is supposed to have trouble getting up for these early starts. This game was over after the first 5 minutes. That was all you needed to see to know that Boston had come out to play and had a single goal in mind: put rest to any talk that the Raptors had any shot at contending with them in any capacity this season. If there were any good feelings after the game in Boston where we played them tight, they were all washed away and instead we saw the glaring weaknesses of the team: Horrendous defense, poor offensive execution, lack of strategy, sub-par personnel and most importantly a lack of effort and intensity.
Jose Calderon’s defense is beyond terrible. He doesn’t have the lateral quickness to keep up with anyone and to top it off he insists on playing PGs tight. I think his idea of good defense is playing tight defense which is so not what you want to do against Rondo. In the last two games he’s been up against Devin Harris and Rajon Rondo who are both weak shooters. Instead of making them take jumpers by laying off he’s begging them to drive past them. In the pre-game post I specifically pointed out that we could not afford to let Rajon Rondo penetrate the paint, and if anything it should be Calderon that should take advantage of Rondo off the high pick. Rondo was killing Calderon off the bounce and all 15 of his points were either layups or FTs:
Here’s Rondo’s Field Goal Selection: Layups: 6-8, Jumpers: 0-3. Again, this isn’t surprising by any means and yet we haven’t been able to convey to Jose of how to play Rondo. I figure if Sam Mitchell commands Jose by saying, “Jose, play at least 5 feet off of Rondo and go under the screens when he’s got the ball”, he’ll listen. Whoever is to blame one thing is for sure, this wasn’t a point emphasized in our game-plan (if we had one). Note to Sam: Tune in to RaptorsRepublic.com for some pre-game tips, they might help out.
The major difference between the Celtics and Raptors is that they are entirely committed to playing team defense and take it as an insult if their man scores. They seem to enjoy the act, not just go through the motions like us. Even late in the fourth quarter after we had gotten our pizza, they were still closing out Bargnani and forcing him to drive. If only Anthony Parker would figure out such simple defensive concepts we’d be in much better shape. Parker got torched early by Ray Allen after he decided to pinch on Garnett post-ups by leaving Allen open. The disease of leaving the other team’s best-shooters to help when helping is not necessary is still rampant amongst the Raptors. Anthony Parker is the worst at this, not only doesn’t he use common sense when defending, he’s also caught trailing screens and is habitually late on close-outs. It was a nightmare game for him where he let Allen get 21 on 12 shots by playing defense that should make a best-selling basketball training video called “How not to defend a shooter”. Don’t get fooled by his 14 points. He was 2-9 in the first three quarters and padded his stats in a meaningless fourth quarter. After his good game in Miami I said that we should brace ourselves for at least four bad games by Parker, 2 down, 2 to go.
Chris Bosh had 24 points, I’m not sure how many came when Garnett was guarding him but it couldn’t be more than 6. There’s no doubt about it, Bosh hates playing against Garnett because KG is all over him. He’s denying him the ball on the perimeter, fronting him in the post and forcing him out of his comfort zone which is a face-up game where he has the option to go right, left or shoot the ball. We had serious trouble getting Bosh the ball in the post, I counted at least 4 times where the idea was to get Bosh the ball but fierce ball-denial by KG forced the Raptors to try a couple different angles without success. Again, we should’ve been expecting this kind of defense from Boston and should’ve factored simple things like entry-passes into our game plan. We never even tried setting a screen on KG to free up Bosh for that half a second so he could catch the ball in the post. It’s simple things like this that are missing from the Raptors and when you throw in the lack of effort you have to wonder what exactly they do in practice.
After the game Doc Rivers pointed out that he counted at least 20 times that the Celtics passed up a jumper for a layup. Our defense was so bad that the Celtics had multiple easy scoring options on the same possession. We’re a “two-pass team” as in it takes two good passes to carve us open. Rondo got the first pass after penetrating the paint and kicking out to a big or a wing who at that point found someone else who was wide open because our rotations were in shambles. With Jermaine O’Neal not in there the interior defense suffered so much that Rivers was surprised that his set pieces were generating so many easy layups for the likes of Baby Davis, Kendrick Perkins and Leon Powe. Their big men didn’t take a single bad shot all game and got their points off of Rondo and Tony Allen dribble penetration and simple East-West ball movement which thoroughly confused the Raptors who were basically playing illegal defense all game long – not here or there. Parker’s not covering Allen nor his he providing a valuable double, a Rondo blow-by leaves Jose frozen at the three-point line, Moon’s biting on pump-fakes so often that he’s forced to play recovery defense which means fouling (4 in 20 minutes). Forget about the desire or commitment to defense, we don’t even know how to play defense. 62% shooting by the Celtics and a 48-22 humiliation in points-in-the-paint tells you all you need to know about our defense. Take some pride fellas, take some pride.
This article here rings true to me. We have demonstrated zero defensive discipline and keep making fundamental mistakes over and over again. We never seem to have a plan of how to defend a team, its like we’re being thrown out there and asked to figure things out for ourselves. The execution has been lacking all year, I’m wondering if there ever is any instruction behind it.
Sam Mitchell’s saying that the past two games have been exceptions to their otherwise solid defense. I don’t know if I agree, our perimeter D has been questionable all year, its just that having O’Neal makes things look rosier than they are. I think not mentioning the lack of defensive effort is being false to himself and the fans. I understand though, admitting that his team isn’t showing up for big games is the death knell of a coach.
“The past two games have been bad so we have to go back and break down the tape, go about things and tighten it up. We are just making a lot of mental errors. We are rotating to guys and left Ray Allen open a few times. We just had a bad game. We know we have it in us, but we just have to go back to the drawing board and review everything on the defensive end. Up until the New Jersey and Boston game our defence had been pretty good, we just have to get it back.”
Jason Kapono’s stat line:
M FG 3FG FT OR TR A TO STL BLK PF PTS 12 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 1 1 1 0 2 0
Jason Kapono’s salary: $5,784,480
Something off? Yeah, I know. Either Sam is a terrible coach and can’t find a way to get the greatest three point shooter in NBA history a shot OR Jason Kapono is being covered to such a degree that he’s in danger of being suffocated. Which one is it? It’s a little bit of both but more of the first. This is inexcusable production from Kapono and should be brought up in every post-game press conference. Sam’s not entirely to blame, our offense is definitely a mess but its exactly in these types of messes that a gunner like Kapono can thrive if only there was somebody looking out for him. That somebody used to be TJ Ford who had the ability to penetrate, attract and kick-out for Kapono. It’s no surprise that Kapono’s decline in numbers coincided with TJ’s injury last year. Since then we haven’t been able to feed him his shots because the defense doesn’t have a reason to leave him. A lot of the blame should go to Calderon who has failed to break his man down and create for Kapono. He seems content on using the high pick to pass the ball back to Bosh who launches a jumper and notches an assist for him in the process. Seriously, look at some of the assists/hockey-assists Devin Harris and Rajon Rondo have had, ask yourself how many times Calderon has been able to create like that?
Here’s something you missed if you weren’t at the game: Bryan Colangelo was watching the game from the tunnel in the third quarter and saw Rondo go coast-to-coast for a three point play and put his hands up in disgust and just walked inside. He’s had enough of this team. We’re last place in the division and have a brutal schedule coming up. I can’t help but think this is the time when something is going to happen, I don’t know what it is but Colangelo has to see the flaws in the roster, the lack of effort or game plan and the problems with his own acquisitions. The problems with this team can’t be fixed overnight, Jose can’t learn to defend in a day and Parker isn’t going to suddenly start scoring in bunches. Jason Kapono isn’t going to up his shot volume out of the blue and Jamario Moon will not become a lockdown defender.
Colangelo’s cornered himself in a pretty tight hole and he’s got to figure out two things 1) How to keep Bosh happy? and 2) How to stay competitive in a tough Eastern conference. Judging by the body language of Bosh today he’s not happy with any of what’s going on, especially the guard play which is putting a lot of pressure on the big men. The fans booing also wasn’t a good sign but it was fully deserved, not sure if sulking is the right response but it’s understood. After all when you see Pierce, Cassell and Garnett practicing their golf swings in the fourth quarter its an insult to the team and the fans. Check out his PG interview, he’s shocked. Even Kevin Garnett offered words of sympathy for Bosh and took a swipe at the Raptors brass:
“I don’t know the situation here or what he’s going through but tonight he looked pretty frustrated. When you’re a good player and trying to be better, trying to be one of the premiers in this league, trying to set your mark, you want the help around you. He has to make a decision on whether he wants to be here.”
Thanks to KG for dropping a hint to Colangelo on Bosh’s behalf. Much appreciated. At his moment in time the Raptors are looking like a severely flawed team which nobody would want a part of. The starting guards cannot guard their position and don’t provide nearly enough offense to make up for it. The center is injured and the small forward is learning to play a new position. That leave Chris Bosh as the only reliable cog in the starting lineup. The bench features an overpaid shooter, three scrubs, a brand spanking new European rookie and Hump. This is far from a threatening squad and as talked about in preseason, for us to be good a lot of things needed to happen perfectly:
- We stay healthy
- Unheard of second unit provides consistency
- O’Neal plays 70+ games
- Two of Humphries, Bargnani and Kapono have career years
- High level team-defense and rebounding
- Consistent effort and quality of play (no bombing 1st quarters at home against the Clippers)
- Great coaching.
So far we’re shooting blanks.
It’s awfully hard to look at positives in a game like this but it should be said that Roko Ukic had a pleasant game. He was the only Raptor that was aggressive on defense and it netted him two steals and five points early in the fourth quarter. That said he also had 5 turnovers of the very silly kind, stepping on end-lines, dribbling off his feet etc. He’s definitely more comfortable with the ball than Solomon and we’re much better off just baptizing him by fire and giving him the backup PG minutes so he can get some experience, tighten his handle, figure out where his points will come from and get used to the NBA speed of defenses. I haven’t been to Raptors practices but they honestly can’t be that great, the best way to teach Roko the NBA is by giving him PT. Humphries was the other Raptor that brought the effort and hustle. He had 11 efficient points and showed good rebounding technique, unfortunately we can’t be relying on our scrubs to win this game but maybe the starters can take a page from them when it comes to effort and desire.
Andrea Bargnani had moderate success driving past Paul Pierce and was doing a great job of keeping him in front of him while contesting his jumper. He picked up a couple very questionable fouls that sent him to the bench and effectively destroyed his early rhythm. When he came back in the third quarter he was playing the 4 and I entertained the idea of having him as the primary ball-handler in the half-court set because he was the only Raptor looking to drive ‘n kick against his man. His three assists are legit and he could’ve had more. Bargnani’s settling in nicely at the SF and his defense is becoming less and less of a concern. Still would’ve liked to see the Raptors go to him more in the post early.
I get into my seat in the 300 level and the first thing I see is Jermaine O’Neal limping after an early rebound and I’m thinking why is he playing if its hurting him. Then I see him go for another rebound and come down funny and I’m screaming, take him out!. He was obviously not ready to go and I just hope he didn’t aggravate his injury further. We got two off days coming up and if he had skipped this game he would’ve gotten 5 full days of rest with the option of extending it to a week with the Bobcats coming to town on Wednesday. Very stupid decision by the Raptors for letting him dress up.
It’s never a good sign when the fans are more into the game than the players. We got rocked and the disappointing thing about this loss is that we didn’t want to compete. We just showed up to get slaughtered and that’s what happened. Don’t worry though, we’ll beat the Bobcats and that’ll restore some unfounded optimism until we head out West and get inevitably crushed. This loss hurt more than the Nets one because we at least competed on Friday. Repercussions are sure to follow.
70 Raps
Exactly. FREE UKIC! Baptism by fire is the only way. Lord knows we aren’t going to have a prayer of winning any of the West Coast games, so just throw him in there against the best and let him prove himself, or at least IMprove himself. What’s the WC schedule like anyway? The next time I think we even have a SHOT at winning is against Indiana on DECEMBER 10th!!! and it’s more like a prayer than anything else. Without JOOHNOOOO playing at max capacity we have Bargs, Bosh and maybe Calderon to run into the ground while AP clangs terrible jumpers, Moon leaps around ineffectively and the rest of our scrubs chill on the bench.
It’s true, we are in a deep shit-hole. We don’t win a single game for a month and Sam is done. And then, maybe we are all done.
not to nitpick, but…rajon, not rajan.
Thanks colin.
Darien, AP is fast becoming the most annoying Raptors for me. It used to be Moon but since he went to the bench I see less of him which is good. I was at this game and I realized that on 85% of our offensive possessions AP does nothing.
The only good thing about Sunday was Roko’s half-decent play, Hump and the things Bargnani was trying to do. It was a massacre and all the fans around me could’nt believe the way the Raptors were being man-handled. I would’ve hated to watch this game on the Boston feed with Tommy Heinsohn.
Can’t believe KG’s openly questioning whether Bosh should stay or not, the prick. At least he’s in a position to openly say that Bosh needs help on this team, Bosh isn’t the type to publicly acknowledge that but its nice that KG’s bringing it to Colangelo’s attention for him.
i don’t know who to be angry with?? Players? Sam? or BC? I was at the game today and was sick of Rondo blowing by Jose. And Don’t even get me started on Parker. Man, that was brutal? Why would you wanna leave one of the premier 3 point shooter all alone in the corner? Kapono does not get a single shot the whole game.. heaven’s sake not even against the second unit? Why would we let tony allen and house rack up all those points. And some of the substitutions. Man, i was never a fan of Sam Mitchell and today i realized why. This guy is not a good coach. I mean if you can’t manage ur resources properly, no matter how meagre they are, you are not a good coach. Isn’t it Sam’s job to set plays to get Kapono more looks and hide Jose’s weaknesses. Why would you play Bosh 41 mins in a blowout? I mean, the closest we got was with in 4 points in the second quater. I would rather play the second unit and let them get some playing time, atleast that would have been entertaing for the crowds.
That was a horrible game to watch. Calderon could not gaurd ME!. and I suck….and am slow… and white….Seriously just back off him and make him shoot jumpers, play D on rondo like the lakers did in the finals. LET HIM SHOOT.
I think I have given up on this team this year, they really need to fire Sam, and Bosh is looking more annoyed by his shitty team mates every game.
Am I the only one who misses TJ Ford being able to create something? No one noticed last year he was really the only raptor other then Bosh who coul create his own shot and shots for others….
O Neal being in jured will really expose the lack of depth on this team. I am really hoping Colagnelo does something drastic to over haul this roster. Worried it might not happen until they deal O Neals expiring next season tho.
Don’t pretend that Calderon is the only point guard that can’t guard guys like Harris and Rondo. Probably lots of teams say that about Calderon when he scores a bunch.
That said, the defense just kills me. Every year it’s the same thing. Either the Raps are lazy or yeah, just don’t know how to play defense. Bosh is just as much to blame too. His defense sucks as well. He is a SUPER SLOW rotater and really is not a threat at all to block shots. Plus, can the Raps ever be considered a contending team when our allstar is consistently dominated by guys like Rasheed Wallance, Kevin Garnett, etc. I mean, Bosh can beat the weak, but the Raps will go as far as Bosh will take them, and maybe that isn’t very far…
Maybe, if we’re becoming more certain that Bosh will leave, we should trade him? Get some young guys and some picks and make sure we have some money in 2010 and get one of the MANY good free agents available.
Or am I freaking out too soon?
BC – get us an good SG and a backup C. And we need a coach too.
Wow. You can tell I’m mad when I use the same word inadvertently twice in the same paragraph. AP is old and washed up. WHY he continues to try crazy fallaway contested jumpers which barely even reach the front rim before giving someone on the other team an easy rebound to pad his stats is BEYOND me. Why Sam Mitchell keeps him IN there is even further from my mind. Here’s a new experiment to try because we are so fucked already-
Pull Parker, put Solomon in as SG. He wants to jack shots up already anyway and lord knows he’s hit a few 3s before. If he isn’t handling the ball, the majority of his turnovers might go away and maybe he’ll play some semblance of defense and MAYBE he’ll get some points instead of JUST being old, tired, and crappy.
Yes, this plan is crazy. Insane. Nuts. But at this point, what harm could it do on a fricking West Coast trip.
Some thoughts:
1. The level of defensive intensity (or lack thereof) is best seen in the way the Raps move their feet on D when they’re not within 5-6 feet of the ball. Where the Celtics are always moving, always repositioning and closing lanes, the Raps just take up a relatively stationary position and guard their man only.
2. The principal problem on both ends of the floor is the wings (when JO is healthy anyway), and that’s a good thing. It’s harder to find good bigs and competent point guards than it is to find cheap, marginally effective wing players. And really that’s what this team needs, just some slightly above average wing play. A little foot speed and athleticism on defense, a little creativity and some penetration on offense, and this team would be looking a LOT better. The point is, there’s reason to be optimistic that the future will hold some better wing play from the raptors, if not this season then next. And although this year is looking a little bleak, remember that Bosh has 2 more years to make up his mind, and if the Raps return to winning in his last year here then all is well.
3. The problem, however, is going to be the lack of internal development and cheap, young bench players. Most of the top teams in the league feature young bench players still on their rookie contracts or on cheap probation deals, players that they’ve developed internally and have come to know the system and can be trusted, more often than not, to maintain a lead or to provide a spark when the starters are lagging. The Celtics have this, the Lakers too. And Detroit. Houston. Utah. The list goes on. Point is, this is a great way to build a bench and allow you to spend more money on high quality starters, not to mention stockpiling trading chips for when you need that one extra piece to get you over the championship hump, but the Raps have little to nothing in the pipe. And in my opinion, this is going to be one of the things Bosh looks at when he’s making his decision. Bargnani, Ukic, even Hump and Joey really need to develop into reliable players for the Raps or else this team is going to have to completely and totally retool aside from Bosh, Calderon, and possibly JO depending on health and price tag (I might Parker and Kapono if you had solid starters in front of them to limit them to specialty roles, but probably not). And it takes time to build championship chemistry (last year’s fluke aside), so you’re looking at another year of big adjustments and struggling and frustration.
Oh my goodness! I just read the Celticsblog on the game and man, that was embarrassing. Stupid arrogant Celtic fans! I hate Boston more and more every day. But still, the guy wasn’t wrong. It was a shaming game for the Raps and for Raptor fans.
Still, can I make an optimistic argument? The Celtics are a good team, the champs, and are making a nice defense of their title. We were supposed to lose this game, maybe not like this, but hey, the Celtics have destroyed a lot of teams. However, excluding this game, the Raps have generally been able to be in a position to win games: against NJ and against the Celtics earlier stand out in my mind. So, perhaps if we tighten up a bit, the Raps can still put together a good season.
I agree with Darien, Parker looks bad out there. His defense isn’t good and neither is his shooting. With Bargnani looking pretty decent at the SF position, we somehow need to fill the hole at SG.
Why doesn’t Calderon take it to the hoop like he used to, 2 yrs ago? when everyone one was like Jose turns those sharp corners and he just lays it in
damn, mikael pietrus would look good in a raptors jersey right about now, pity MLSE was so cheap in the offseason, WHILE GOOD PLAYERS COULD BE HAD FO THE MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION, before suddenly changing their mind, those dickheads.
anyone thinking about the fact calderon is playing injured
that hamstring didn’t just magicly heal you know, you can’t guard anyone with youre explosiveness gone, usaly he gets abused but not this bad
bosh wasn’t good either on defense
perk and kg could score on him at random his post defense is horrid
the fact he can’t get touches 1 / never seen a player get no fouls called for hanging on to a player like kg does 2/ lack of plays 3/ if you want the freaking ball so bad come and get you little bitch
bargs is improving that and ukic played some D are the only bright lights of the day
jo just shouldn’t have played he could have made it worse then it was before , a loss was expected anyway
parker is just old
hump only good for 3 solid minutes of pure energy after that his level drops off a lot
kapono no shot well , look at coach
no decent inbound plays , no scores on possesions after time-out , no looks for kapono , not enough looks for bosh , no reaction to fouls called on andrea that we’re bullshit . someone get a tech andrea or the coach have stop this nonsense.
BC has to make moves 1/ coach 2/ sg trade parker andmoon and kapono and graham and hump for something 1 or 2 others that can defend
If Rondo owned Jose…Which he did…What will T.J Ford do? Answer is anything he wants. I mean people will say Jose is hurt but he has always been brutal on Defense.
Reality Check:
1. Raptors are not an athletic team.
2. Raptors are not a basketball-wise team.
3. Raptors are not a playoff team.
Now considering these facts, continue with the discussion.
God,I’ve tuned out Sam,I’m sure the players have as well.
Kapono….not one shot,sit your ass on the bench ,we know Soloman isnt worried about his %.
I think,had we gotten an all out effort ,nobody would of bitched,but when JO left the game,the will to win left with him.
Again KG gets away with murder….someone should of parked fuckin Rondo on his ass…oh thats right without JO we crawl in a corner,like fuckin pussies.
pre-game thoughts:
‘arse – good write-up. from what i can gather, you’re saying that the raps have to, essentially, have an excellent game-plan, and execute it to near-perfection, to have a chance. any evidence to date that that’s even remotely possible?’
and we have our answer.
i had to go out, so i set my dvr to record the game. just before leaving, i flicked it on to check the score. it was 21-6. i stopped recording. was able to check back occasionally…saw them get to 36-30. checked back later, & saw they had given it all back. saw the celtics scrubs get uncontested lay-up after uncontested lay-up.
i guess the point is, we’ve known for quite some time where this team’s weaknesses lie, but unfortunately, we also know that the chances BC’s going to do anything major is fairly remote. fire smitch…yeah, i can see it, but what will that do? give them a better chance to beat mediocre teams, maybe, but against even marginally good teams, they’re going to struggle. fore sure, some of it is play-calling, but i firmly believe that it comes down to execution.
since their 3-0 (fool’s-gold) start, they’re 3-7 and looking decidedly like a perrenial sub-.500 team, with no reason to believe that they’ll be anything but going forward, unless ‘changes’ are made.
would the raps beat the celtics if they (celts) were missing 2 of their big-3? as bad as the raps are playing, i think the celts without all three would give ‘em a run for their money…if not win outright.
is this just a low-point before they go on a tear? hahahaha. sorry, got overy optimistic for a second there…
Arse, finally realized why you can’t stand the Celts – cause they’re everything we’re not and you hate them for it.
I continually to be so impressed by the Celts’ committment to team defense. Sure, it’s a cliche, but it’s so true. Also very impressed with Tony Allen – energy, assertiveness and a willingness to take it to the hole!
What did piss me off was Perkins’ neanderthalic whooping after a dunk in traffic while up by 21. At least he got T-ed up. And Garnett’s comment re: Bosh and his tenure in Toronto? Yeah, pretty cunty to use your term, but he’s right.
Did you actually witness BC walking down the tunnel in a huff after Rondo’s walk through the park? I’m shocked as he almost always either has a poker face on while watching the team or playing solitaire on his Crackberry.
Darien – you can’t expect any more from AP. Old, unathletic and overmatched, he’s been put in a position to be the default lockdown defender on this team simply because we have nobody better. This directly correlates to his energy (or lack thereof) on offense. Forget blaming AP or even Smitch on this one – look to BC if you want to point the finger at somebody.
Putting in Solomon at SG may not be as insane as it seems (…maybe). I think it all depends on the matchup that night. At 6′1″, you don’t want him to get completely overmatched on D as entertaining as that sounds. If this ever happened it would be the perfect snapshot as to our sorry state of affairs at that position.
Will the raptors ever be good?
Birdman, they’re cocky c*nts. I would’ve linked to the CelticsBlog comments on the game but couldn’t get myself to do it. Let’s just say they weren’t humble. I think it appeared in the ‘latest web articles’ yesterday though.
They are good and I’m not even talking about talent. I haven’t seen a team love to play defense this much since the ‘04 Pistons. Garnett looks to get in your head all the time and even their bench guards Rondo/T Allen/House constantly pressure the ball. Powe comes off the bench and plays physical and Baby Davis comes in to throw his weight around. It goes beyond the Big 3, Doc Rivers might not be a great coach but he’s done an awesome defense sell-job and that’s half the battle in winning NBA games. From there on in there talent takes over.
We on the other hand can’t motivate ourselves to play defense and to make matters worse don’t have the physical ability to do so (at least the guards). What a mess…
yertu, as I said in the post, we are counting on a lot of things that have a probability of going wrong to go right. So far no one X-Factor has truly stepped up and the overall commitment to defense hasn’t been there and the coaching as been weak. Put all this together without our lack of depth and you get a sub-500 team that just might get crushed out West.
Did I miss a game where HewithOnegoodknee parked somebody on his ass? This is a serious question, since I might have. He may make people think twice about going inside (although we still give up horrible PIP numbers), but I have yet to see anybody on this team aggressively foul someone other than Hump.
If our plan was to make other teams jumpshooting teams, it ain’t working.
First of all, this blog is impressive. You guys reported a lot of the key points of the game in depth and relatively quick.
Second, that game really shed light towards the weaknesses of the team. I read what some people posted but to play devil’s advocate, this loss was ultimately the fault of the team. It wasn’t Sam, it wasn’t Boston but it was the team. Like it was said, the game was over in the first five minutes. I sat there in aw while the Celtics added insult to injury.
As far as I see it, Boston came to play and Toronto came just because they had to. There was a lack of effort and desire. I think Raptors are better than that.
I propose trading for Trevor Ariza. Lakers will be unable to resign him this summer, so anything they can get for him now will be pure gravy.
Why exactly can’t they sign him? They have Odom’s contract coming off the books, and they have his bird rights. They don’t really want to let him go either especially with how well he has been playing early in the year. You are hearing almost as much about Ariza as Bynum.
Oh Jesus, how I hate pragmatism.
what i dont understand is why didn’t colangelo go for somebody like Queinton Ross, Matt Barnes, or Mikael Pietrus? These are low-risk high reward type of players which would have solidified the depth of wing positions. Hell, even take a flyer on bonzi wells, he’s better than what we got right now. Why give a second round pick guaranteed money when you could picked up a defensive-first guy like ross? I’m no gm, but sometimes its not so hard.
Raptors played terrible team defense without O’neal able to play on 2 legs, in the post, vs the best defensive team in the NBA, maybe a tie with the LAL.
The reason they competed in Boston was O’Neal(11rb,5ast,23pts) and Parker, and Kapono ( 4rb,6ast,14pts) and Rondo was a non factor.
The key to the defense is O’Neal, Bargnani, and Bosh as a group, at least 2 at a time. Did not happen. Kapono(0,0,0)) did not happen either, as he was in Boston’s game plan along with Bosh to take away.
Bosh showed up the whole team with his immaturity, in refusing to join the huddle, in the time out, very disapointing for our supposed Franchise player and leader, who is allowing Garnett to own him on both offense and defense. Until he becomes as aggressive as Garnett, in taking the game to him, Raptors have no hope of beating Boston.
Bosh has to be a LEADER, be vocal, & talk to his teamates in the huddle, not show off his frustration to the world, whether it is with himself, his teamates, his coach, or GM, the world is left to wonder.
Johnn19-the reason Rondo was a non-factor in Boston was that Jose was healthy at the time, which clearly he is NOT right now. I know all of the Jose haters out there will claim that Jose is never great defensively, but he is clearly playing at less than 100% right now.
Also, I know that Garnett and Sheed do a fantastic job on Bosh. I watch all the games and I see him struggle against those teams. However, make no mistake, when Bosh faces Detroit and Boston, the entire team is aware of what Bosh is trying to do. Yesterday, there was always a second defender hovering around Bosh, preventing him from creating space on the floor. I was at the game and could see that the help was always ready.
Furthermore, in my opinion, I think that the other Raptors need to do a better job of cutting and getting to the open spots to help Bosh and Calderon when they put the ball on the floor. We know that Boston is going to help.
I am very happy with Andrea’s play and I think that we need to run more plays with him as the primary ball handler. The Mav’s set up Dirk in the high post, near the free throw line (the reason for this is that it is much easier for him to see where the help is coming from). Andrea has greatly improved from this range. We could run some cutters off of back screens as Andrea is a pretty good passer as well.
Thoughts?
and yet, despite there always (or seemingly always) being a 2nd defender in close proximity, the raps NEVER seem to be able to find an open shooter. when EVERYTHING’S a struggle, something ain’t right.
Yertu-I think you are right. And the blame must fall on a total lack of off the ball movement/screen setting. If a team helps on D, then we must make it difficult for the other team’s rotations. Case in point, the Raptors OWN help defence.
We are not Boston, we will more than likely lose to this team, which WHIPPED Detroit earlier in the year, each time we play them.
We are not deep enough for one of our “Big 3″ to go down and 2 of the 3 were either down or not playing at 100%. What did you expect from this game?
The key thing for this season is whether the Raptors can make the playoffs and win a round. This was mostly predicated on health, something we all knew at the beginning of the year.
If you bought hollinger’s forecast for the Raps, you would have expected them to come in 5th or 6th (can’t remember which exact one) but it doesn’t really matter. 6th and you’re playing the 3rd seed (Cleveland, Detroit) —translation:loss—- 5th and you’re playing the 4th seed (Orlando or Philly/Atlanta) —-translation:possible win, but only if we are HEALTHY —
Let’s get JO back and Jose back to 100% and see how things go. Lets try to be levelheaded.
Oh and if Peddie has given the okay to go into the tax, there is the hope that BC will do something to address the needs of the team, so lets remain hopeful.
Very good comments today. Rishi, I think you’re spot-on about potential results depending on where we finish in the standings. Peddie’s given a soft-approval for going over the tax but I don’t see what move BC can possibly make that can improve this team in the short-term given what he has to barter with (Kapono, Hump). Remember, Bargnani isn’t going anywhere. If the tax line is to be crossed I think it’ll happen in the summer via FA signing.
yertu/lester: you guys just pointed out exactly what’s wrong with the offense. Even if we incite a double we still can’t score, this is a fairly new problem. In our division-winning year we were the best team in the NBA when it came to kicking out of the double and swinging the ball around, don’t really know what happened since.
Dino Gunners: He didn’t acquire those players because they don’t fit the “Colangelo mold of player”. I’m still trying to figure out what that is.
Eddie Jordan got fired:
http://www.nba.com/2008/news/11/24/wizards.jordan.ap/index.html
Has anyone noticed anything funny about the Hollinger’s player stats.
Kris Humphries is 9th overall in the league????!!! lol
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics
oh there’s the link
Ya and according to 82Games’ Adjusted Plus-Minus, Jamario Moon was the 8th Most Effective Player in the NBA last year. The roster is chock full of winners.
http://www.82games.com/ilardi2.htm
arse – i’m just boggled at how hard it seems to get an open look for our shooters, and it’s not a recent development. i watch a lot of ball, and there are very few teams that have as difficult a time in taking advantage of their supposed weapons. even when our guys demand a double, defenses always seem able to rotate quickly & close out on our shooters. since none of our perimeter guys can shoot well unless open, it really makes it difficult to get things going.
when was the last time we saw anyone take the ball at the top of the key & just create? i’m sure it’s happened, but that lack of go-to guy is going to kill them (well, keep killing them). it has, IMO, way more to do with ABILITY than it does with EFFORT.
been thinking about bosh a bit – we can see he’s pretty miffed, but honest to fuck, it was a parade into the pain in the 3rd & 4th Q, when he was on the floor with bargnani. i lost count of how many open, uncontested layups they gave up. it almost looked like he was trying to send a message…like, ‘holy fuck, look what happens when i let the guy who just blew by our perimeter D go uncontested to the hole. pretty shitty, eh bryan? maybe you should, um, go do something about it. y’know, before i start saving my body to ensure i’ll be in good shape for the summer of ‘10. you do realize i’m one of ‘THOSE’ targeted players, right? by about a dozen or so teams that are going to bend over backward b/w now & then just for the chance to sign me away. keep this shit up, and i’m outta here.’
also been thinking about jose. now, i know he’s hurt, and a bum hammy just sucks donkey balls, but it’s not like he was even below-average defensively before then. maybe we should put the ‘jose’s an all-star’ talk on hold until he, you know, outplays another PG. or at least stops getting killed by ‘em. bibby. andre miller. rondo. none of these guys are bandied about as all-stars, but all made jose look like a pylon. i could handle the defensive lapses if AP wasn’t also a phantom. or if he (jose) actually pushed the ball a bit, or took a few risks here & there. he has to be the most cautious PG in the league, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing (to wit: swill), but he almost seems overly concerned about taking chances. part of what made the greats great was that they were willing to take risks, to push the envelope, to FORCE THE D TO RESPECT THE POSSIBLE. with jose, all the D has to do is hedge hard on the PNR & make sure he doesn’t get left open.
FWIW …
IMO, Chris Bosh was not miffed at his teammates in yesterday’s debacle. He was extremely disappointed in himself, as an elite level basketball player.
After the 4th quarter of the prior game in Boston, during which Bosh was told by a whole lot of people who just don’t understand how the NBA game works, that what he would have to do next time to contend successfully with the Celtics’ [i.e. KG's] smothering D [specifically on him], was to be more aggressive individually, demand the ball, and initiate his team’s offense himself.
However, when he tried to do this during yesterday’s game, what he discovered for himself was that Kevin Garnett, at 33 years of age, (i) is still fairly far ahead of CB4 (at only 24 years of age), on the elite level player continuum, and, is in fact (ii) in a whole different category, athletically, when it comes to being a multi-dimensional force in the NBA.
And when it comes to matching-up Man-for-Man with the Boston Celtics, athletically, CB4 is just one of several Raptors who are very simply over-matched by their counterpart on the reigning NBA Champions:
PG – Calderon [injured] < Rondo
OG – Parker < Allen-R
SF – Bargnani < Pierce
B1 – Bosh < Garnett
B2 – O’Neal [injured] < Perkens
————————
PG – Ukic > House
OG – Kapono < Allen-T
SF – Moon > O’Bryant
B3 – Graham = Davis
B4 – Humphries = Powe
————————
PG – Solomon = Pruitt
SF – Adams = Scalabrine
tough game, for sure. As much as I sympathize with CB4, he’s gotta watch that kind of attitude…no one wants to look like they’re bailing on their team, crappy showing or not.
Thats a good point ^^^^
The raptors have built probably the most unathletic team int he league. Which is a big problem in EVERY AREA OF THE GAME. Defense, rebounding, offense, even the “hustle” plays. All of those we start the game at a disadvantage.
Frustrating!!
Somethhing has got to give! I am still mad about this weekend I think.
yertu, I think we saw how important O’Neal is against the Celtics. Without him we look like the squad from last year and may as well give a welcome hug every time somebody drove the paint. I don’t think Bosh checked out of playing interior D, he can’t be in two places at the same time, he came out to meet Rondo/Allen a few times but they passed it off for Perk etc for layups. Those guys are patient finishers and made us pay. Every layup they had was preceded by at least one or two pump fakes, maybe if JO was there he contests some of it.
Getting good shats has been a problem and I think a LOT has to do with Calderon. Listen to Doc Rivers’ post-game press conference in the Video section, he’s emphasizing how important it is to get into your offense with enough time on the shotclock (18-21). The Raptors waste at least 4-5 seconds on a fruitless high screen which has the effect of Calderon passing to Bosh at the top of the key. Once you give Bosh the ball there, then its basically his shot to take because he takes a good chunk of time thinking about what he’s going to do before he does it.
I think what’s missing is secondary movement. What I mean by that is if the high pnr doens’t free up anyone, we need to have more movement to throw the defense off. For example if the high pnr doesn’t do anything, Bosh can kick out to AP/Moon/Bargnani or someone and they can drive the baseline and create. In the Boston game I saw this with Bargnani a couple times where he created open shots for Hump. Right now the D knows what’s coming and they’re prepared for it, its like going through the motions for them. The other (good) team’s defense is almost never disrupted or in shambles when they play us because they’ve done the scouting.
The lack of shots from Bosh doubles is more of a mystery. Poor spacing and having your shooters on the wrong side of Bosh is one of the problems. Notice when Ray Allen drained those threes after Parker doubled KG, where was he standing? Right in a position where it was easy for KG to make the pass. Contrast this with where Kapono will be standing when Bosh is in a position to get doubled. It’s small simple shit like this that’s missing from the Raps.
Everything you just said was happening and a problem last year…Calderon started a lot and played exactly the same way..Kapono’s spacing has always been the worst in the NBA…Bosh is painfully predictable…all of it exactly the same as last year….
No excuse for that shit this year..no excuse whatsoever from ANYONE.
No excuse for the lack of development of Bosh or anyone else when dealing with Garnett or any of teh good teams…no fucking excuse.
The platitudes and bullshit from the dipshits on Raptors TV is painful.
They have to stop running those fucking promos proclaiming Moon as “great story” and Bosh “making everyone around him better” etc. they are pathetic reminders when this team is so predictably fucking bad….
Anyone who could not see this coming is a fucking blind, unobservant dope…
I don’t believe they actually practice….I think they sit around and watch cartoons until the dumbass reporters come in and ask pathetic questions with NO followup and no demand for any response beyond these pathetic clichés and platitudes…
Someone better break some fucking asses around there or it’s going to get uglier….
I didn’t like the Bargs @ 3 move, but it has seemed to work out thus far. Overall I thought/think Calderon became so ‘underrated’ he became overrated much too quickly. I don’t care what John Hollinger, I hate players that cannot guard their position. Jack Armstrong touched on it during the post game, teams realize Jose can’t stay in front of his man. So the PG will go at Jose constantly and drive/dish or drive/dump depending on who comes to help.
I think BC’s best move would be to trade Calderon for a PG/Starting Wing Player.
Maybe Jose/filler maybe picks for Monta Ellis/AZ. If GS can;t resolve their beef.
I understand losing a fantastic offensive pg may hurt this season drastically. But Do you really anything but a 1st round exit at most?
OH yeah, is it me or is Garnett being an absolute prick now that he has a ring? With the Calderon finger wag, these comments about Bosh, and I saw him taunting ridnour in a milwaukee game, it seems to be the case.
BTW Arse, did you actually see BC leave in disgust? I didn’t see him much , but when i did he just looked dissappointed like everyone else in the building, I think he wanted to boo smitch.
Arsenalist,
I disagree with a few of your observations there:
i) Playing w/o Jermaine O’Neal yesterday was equivalent to playing with last year’s team, except without Rasho Nesterovic, as well. Given O’Neal’s history of injuries, however, it was always going to be a poor proposition to simply try and substitute Jermaine into Rasho’s spot, based on their respective records of availability over the aast 4 years. Even if one player is better than the other, if he is also frequently injured and the other one is not, then that other player needs to be evaluated in a slightly different way when assessing his overall contribution to the team.
ii) The problems on the defensive end of the floor in yesterday’s game were not due to the absence of Jermaine O’Neal. They came about because of (1) the presence of Jermaine O’Neal, early-on, (2) Calderon’s injury, and (3) the use of Bargnani at the #3-spot vs Paul Pierce. Pierce did not light the Raptors, but Bargnani is too slow [non-athletic for a #3] to leave Pierce on any type of defensive rotation. When you couple that with Bosh not being able to leave Garnett and Parker not being able to leave Allen-R, what you then end up with is a muffled Raptors’ half-court D with a hobbled Jose Calderon [who is free to help & rotate off of his individual check] on Rondo, and a hobbled JO [who is free to help & rotate off of his individual check] on Perkins, with no rotating help from anywhere else of value.
* Epecially when you consider the way in which the Celtics attacked the Raptors D with JO on the floor, i.e. by going at him in the post with Kendrick Perkins [of all people] due to Jermaine’s lack of mobility yesterday.
iii) re: the Raptors Pick & Pop offensive structure with Chris Bosh
- When Bosh rolls hard to the rim vs other teams he can still succeed in the low post
- When Bosh rolls hard to the rim vs Kevin Garnett he has ZERO physical advantage in the low post
- The Raptors choose to Pop with Bosh vs Garnett because it takes the Celtics best lane defender away from the basket and, at least, gives the Raptors a chance to feed their other Big in a high % shooting area on the court … i.e. which is a better option than rolling Bosh to the rim vs Garnett and having O’Neal, et al., play away from the hoop against his individual check when he has limited physical mobility
iv) Not getting good, clean, open looks yesterday vs the Celtics had to do with more than just Calderon.
When your 1st Unit is out-quicked, out-athleticized and out-skilled in the following ways …
Calderon v Rondo [too quick & too athletic, given JC's injury, w/o a quality back-up]
Parker v Allen-R [too quick & too skilled]
Bargnani v Pierce [too quick, too athletic & too skilled]
Bosh v Garnett [too quick, too athletic & too skilled]
O’Neal v Perkins [too quick & too athletic given JO's injury]
getting good, clean, open looks, at any of the five spots, can be difficult to come by.
Basketball is a game of ‘Horizontal [straight-ahead & side-to-side] Quickness’ vs your individual opponent at the position played, as I suggested here last week. Yesterday … the Raptors were out-quicked all over the court.
I don’t like that Bosh always plays so docile against guys like Garnett and Rasheed. He needs to take it at these guys and try and get them to foul out. I know the elite defenders won’t foul out easily, but Bosh usually draws a foul when he heads to the hoop, so maybe he should try that against some of the quality players in the NBA instead of just against rookies or garbage.
Obviously Calderon’s defense isn’t good, but isn’t that typically the price you pay in the NBA? Most point guards can put up a lot of points and usually shred the defense of the opposing guard. I mean, it’s not like Rondo, Harris, or Bibby don’t score against other teams! And Calderon, in my opinion, is usually better than his adversary. There are very few point guards that can score AND defend (Paul, Deron, Billups, might be it), so I’m ok if Calderon can outplay the other guard on offense, which often happens.
It does seem like Calderon’s injury is bugging him though, cause last year he seemed much more intense defensively, even if he still wasn’t good. That said, Arsenalist made a good point, why didn’t Smitch tell Calderon to back off Rondo and force him to shoot? Or, if he did, why didn’t Calderon listen?
khandor … should Bosh be traded this season or after the next season???
I think you know what I am talking about.
Don’t see it khandor. You always make the assumption that Rasho = JO just because the stats are similar. JO brings interior help D, Rasho did not do that. Rasho did a great job of bodying up other bigs and using his frame effectively, he could in no way be considered a great help defender because he just wasn’t agile enough to get to the spots where the G/F had penetrated.
Is Calderon injured? If so, we should sit him down. I’d rather have Ukic in there D’ing up people and trying his level-best than Caldeorn limping around with an excuse for not playing D. I see you point about not being able to leave your cover to help but even if that were 100% the case it plays right into my argument that not having a healthy JO being the problem. Bargnani can’t leave Pierce, Parker can’t leave Allen, Bosh can’t leave KG which leaves JO leaving Perkins the only option and since JO wasn’t there nobody left anybody and Rondo continually abused Calderon.
I can’t explain why things happened the way they did, all I know is that the effort and preparation was lacking. Just like how they covered Kapono, we should’ve covered Allen. How’s that for simplicity? The Raptors aren’t doing the basic simple things right, that’s what’s frustrating all fans.
IMO, there are several other players on this current roster who should be higher up on the ‘Trade Asset Ladder’ in comparison with Chris Bosh …
e.g.
Jermaine O’Neal … expiring contract makes him somewhat attractive
Andrea Bargnani … other GM’s are intrigued by his package
Anthony Parker … expiring contract and a solid back-up
Jason Kapono … a niche specialist
Kris Humphries … a former 1st Round Draft Pick
Joey Graham … a former 1st Round Draft Pick
Roko Ukic … a young PG with good size and average quickness
Jamario Moon … not a highly marketable asset right now
Hassan Adams … should not be in the NBA
Will Solomon … should not be in the NBA
Jose Calderon … a frachise cornerstone
Chris Bosh … a franchise cornerstone
[Note: Until Jawai's physical status is certified he cannot be traded.]
Just because Chris Bosh is not as good as Kevin Garnett … is no reason for the Raptors to view him as something other than their franchise player.
IMO, what’s truly unfortunate is that the three most marketable assets on the Raptors’ roster last season were wasted when TJ Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and the 2008 No. 17 [overall] Draft Pick were ALL included in the same deal, in return for Jermaine O’Neal [whose label should have read, 'Damaged Goods'].
It’s a matter of evaluating NBA talent correctly and then signing/trading for HIGH END players who are currently under-valued by the teams which hold their rights or unearthing them in the NBA Draft when other organizations mistakenly pass them by [e.g. trading up to select Luc Richard Mbah A Moute, which the Raptors could have done this past June].
Arsenalist,
1. You’re assuming that the lack of an interior help/shot-blocking defender … like JO is supposed to be … was indeed one of the major problems with last year’s team.
IMO, it was not.
2. There were other options available in yesterday’s game to deal effectively with the ‘athletic advantage’ the Celtics had in their 1st Unit.
IMO:
1. Bryan Colangelo needs to be held accountable for the lack of athleticism & skill on this overall roster;
and,
2. Sam Mitchell needs to be held accountable for the lack of athleticism in the team’s 1st Unit yesterday.
[e.g. Calderon should not be dressing right now when he's operating at less than 50%; and neither should Jermaine O'Neal]
khandor, the trade values you’ve applied to the players sound about right but the only realistic assets BC has to deal are Jason Kapono, Hump, Graham and Parker. I can’t seem to understand why we would trade Kapono, we’re better off firing Mitchell and hoping somebody can figure out how to use Kapono. He can be valuable to this team if used properly, I am resolute in that. With JO’s recent injury, I don’t think Hump is tradeable anymore because we need some insurance and with Jawai already sidelined it would be huge risk to trade Hump for a wing.
That leaves us with Graham and Parker. Graham has been played in a way such that he has no value whatsoever. And so its down to Parker who I only think would be attractive to a true contender who is looking for 10-15 minutes of backup SG work and some specialty shooting. I’m afraid there’s no magic forumula to fix the Raptors, we’ll have to either suck this year and wait to get an FA in the off-season and go over the cap. Or this team could somehow find itself and start playing some defense like we all had hoped they would. I know one thing, it has to start by us showing some pride on defense and coming out aggressive and staying aggressive for 48 minutes. We need to compensate for our lack of depth and talent by playing HAAARD! So far its not happened.
And yes, I agree with you on BC being held accountable for putting together a weak roster that lacks athleticism. No arguments there.
The Celtics and the Lakers had two things nobody else in the NBA had last year: team defense, and team passing. If I’m wanting to unseat them, those are the systems I put in place … those are the players I play, … or those are the players I get. Everything else that you want flows from that.
Arsenalist,
With JO’s current injury … the moves I’d make are these:
1. Calderon sits until he is healthy.
2. JO sits until he is healthy.
3. Bargnani goes back to the PF position.
4. Bosh goaes back to the C position.
5. Paker becomes the starting PG.
6. Moon becomes the starting OG.
7. Graham become the starting SF.
8. Hump becomes the 1st Big off the bench.
9. Solomon becomes the back-up PG, and is asked to score the ball without conscience when he come’s into the game.
10. Kapono becomes the back-up Wing.
11. Ukic sits … because he can’t shoot the ball a lick.
12. Adams sits … because he just isn’t very good.
13. Jawai … waits for the results of his tests to come back.
At least that line-up is fairly athletic and can rebound the ball with some degree of proficiency.
With the increased size & athleticism at the #1, #2 & #3 spots it should be able to hold its at the defensive end of the floor, allow Bosh to return to the mid-post area, on offense, and allow Bargnani & Parker to jack away from the TOTK, with Moon & Graham setting up shop in the Corners, strictly for ‘Catch & Shoots’.
That team, with that rotation, is not good enough to beat high end teams in the NBA … but it is good enough to remain competitive, until Jose & Jermaine return to health, and give the Raptors a fighting chance to win the games they play against the other Middle-of-the-Pack Teams across the League.
Defense from the Starters; Offense from the subs … is the way for this team to go, this season … given the limitations of the player roster for Bryan Colangelo is fully responsible.
khandor, you’ve been insisting on that lineup since May and I give you credit for sticking to it. But as I said on arsenalist.com a few times, I just don’t think Moon is close to being a shooting guard, not even close. I can almost see coaches lagging off him to double on Bosh without any repercussion whatsoever. Sure, he’s an upgrade over Parker on the D end but its not like Parker’s off the court. You’re moving AP to guard the PG which usually requires even more quickness than the off-guard. Imagine AP on Devin Harris? Hell, even Felton on AP is a huge mismatch? **shudder**
Graham need a fresh start. Either he needs to find another team or we need to get a new coach. He will amount to nothing under Mitchell, he needs very specific instruction on what to do on the court and if he doesn’t have those he’s making a mockery of himself. Also, you’re asking Solomon to pull a Microwave Johnson? Naaaaaaahh……we’ll discuss more tomorrow..
i dunno…can’t shake the feeling that the season’s already slipped away. i know, i know, 13 games in, way too early for that, yada yada. some will look at their record & figure it’s not so bad, just some early-season kinks to work out, and maybe that’s the case. i’m just not feeling it. of course they’ll win games, perhaps quite a few, and guys that we thought were dead will have big nights (isn’t AP due for another big game – or at least a big half?), and there will be times that they’re playing so well we’ll think they could beat anyone. but those moments, i fear, will be few & far between, fleeting reminders of what may have been. does this squad, as currently constructed & coached, have it within them to even make the playoffs? a laughable thought 3 weeks ago, the raps have been smacked over the head with a healthy dose of reality since that pie-in-the-sky 3-0 start.
i was getting pretty depressed about it. then i watched parts of the charlotte/philly game. yee-ikes. that was some ugly stuff. so, at least i know it can get worse.
as cruel as it may be, this whole mess, if you’re inclined to pin it on one player, comes down to moon. i’m not sure that’s fair, and maybe our expectations were set too high by his play last year, and maybe all the ‘feel-good’ stuff blinded us to his inherent flaws. but his whole attitude coming into camp seems to have spread throughout the organization, that laissez-faire lack of urgency or awareness, the kind of urgency & awareness that his own mortality as an NBA player was at stake, and that if he wanted to stick, he’d have to show he was worthy. instead, he arrived with the air of a seasoned vet, without, apparently, working on many (any?) aspects of his game (his shot is better, but still horrible). his D is laughable (has anyone ever bit on more pump fakes…or shoulder fakes…or head fakes). top it off with the chip he’s carrying around, and to me, he sums up the raps recent play to a T.
Arsenalist,
The line-up I’m advocating at this time is slightly different than what I put forward earlier, when all hands were on deck.
Not saying that Parker wouldn’t have his hands full at the PG-spot … because he would. Only that, at this point, he is the best choice to play that spot until Calderon is healthy.
Once that happens, then, yes, I would still like to see him shift to splitting time between the back-up PG & OG spots … where he’s a better fit, athletically, at this stage of his career.
[e.g. Parker would need to use his size & strength to his advantage vs quicker PG's like Rondo & Harris, who are solid pentrators no doubt but nowhere near the shooting threat of a #2 like Kobe Bryant or Ray Allen]
Likewise with Moon …
who is not an ideal #2 but is very solid, athletically, at that spot [rather than the #3], against the likes of Ray Allen, where he too could use his size, and his overall lack of strength could be minimized, allowing him to board better, at this spot, in a similar but different way to what he did last season;
and, Graham …
who is far from being an ideal #3 but is a solid athlete that can defend and rebound that spot, physically, against the likes of Paul Pierce & Lebron James.
The designated shooters would then become Bargnani and Parker, with Bosh operating in the Mid-Post, and the Wings using their size to post-up vs smaller or same-sized players and ‘Catch & Shoot’ spot up J’s in the Corners.
Solomon would then be turned into the 2nd coming of Mike james not ‘The Microwave’.
———————-
IMO, it’s precisely this type of unconventional line-up which a coach like Gregg Popovich would use, at this time, with a roster like the Raptors’ if he had the task of keeping them afloat until Calderon and O’Neal regain their health.
hey khandor Parker this year cant guard no1. his ankles get broken each game. get it got it good. if this is raps best perimeter defender theyr screwed. And you would put him as a PG? A PG on a team like raptors don’t really need to score so much, just make good decisions, assists, steals and defend.
U got Bosh, O’Neal, Capono even Bargnani and Parker for scoring.
After 13 games, the problem here is not Jose or the back up point, its the SGs and wings who everyone assumed will at least play like last year but they seemingly lost all confidence and just degraded (parker, moon, capono, graham, and to some degree bargnani who lets be honest has improved his offense slightly)
Hands up if you think Smitch should be replaced by Mark Jackson.
…and silence…
——————————–
re: After 13 games, the problem here is not Jose or the back up point, its the SGs and wings
——————————–
I completely disagree with this assessment of the Raptors’ current situation.
Despite what it might look like … especially to an unsophisticated NBA observer/fan … each of this team’s 7 losses so far this season have revolved around, a combination of …
* Not having an adequate, NBA calibre back-up PG on the roster, other than Anthony Parker, who has yet to be used in this role … except for the last few minutes of the game in which Jose Calderon was injured;
* The changed dynamics of this team’s 1st and 2nd units with Jermaine O’Neal replacing Rasho Nesterovic on the roster;
* The loss of a versatile player like Jorge Garbajosa from the squad of two years ago which eventually finished with a 47-35 record;
* The limitations of players like Andrea Bargnani, Jason Kapono and Hassan Adams, athletically, defensively & rebounding-wise;
NOT the perceived problems with Parker, Moon and Graham.
When you have a rampant mis-diagnosis of what it is that actually ails a team … it’s very difficult [impossible-?] to address the causes of the problem correctly.
Here’s a simple fact for others to consider about the Raptors since February/2006.
Whenever Jorge Garbajosa played more than 20+ MPG for Toronto … their team performed like one of the High End squads in the NBA, while without him in the line-up they were decidely in the Middle-of-the-Pack.
This Raptors team DID NOT NEED a player like Jermaine O’Neal in order to put it back on track, climbing the ladder in the EC. What it NEEDED, instead, was a player like … Jorge Garbajosa [i.e. a smallish Big, who was an excellent passer, could shoot the 3-ball, rebound effectively, do the dirty work, defend Big and, if need be, even defend the Wing, as well], who was already on their roster last season, but was injured and recovering from his extended rehab.
THE MAIN PROBLEMS with this team right now are NOT at the Wing position … they are at (1) the back-up PG spot, and (2) at the Power Forward position, which is where Garbo used to play.
Khandor,
Why do you think that Popovich would use that lineup? What has he done in the past that makes you believe he’d use that lineup?
Dave,
Exhibit A – Pop’s willingness to play Brent Barry at the PG spot, even though he is someone who others would think might have a difficult time covering smaller, quicker opponents.
Exhibit B – Pop’s willingness to use Manu Ginobili [6-6] at the PG spot … even though he’s someone who others might also expect to have some difficult with covering smaller, quicker opponents, at that specific position.
One of the all-time great examples of an outstanding head coach/GM/organization making the decision to use a player out of his “natural” position in a state of emergency is the famous “Magic-Johnson-at-Center-for-an-injured-Kareem” when the Lakers won the title vs the 76ers [1980], in Philly, when there were other ‘bigger’ options available at Center for the Showtime Crew but they made the CORRECT decision to go ’small’ there instead with their very best player … and the rest, as they say, is now history.
Using players unconventionally is a sure sign of a high calibre GM/head coach/organization/etc.
Standard fare, on the other hand, is most frequently … a sign of a standard ['average'] performer.
For those who might have doubted the accuracy of what I said yesterday about the source of Chris Bosh’s anger during that time-out vs Boston [in comment #39]:
“I have high expectations for this team and I still do. It’s still very early in the season and it’s just when I feel that we’re not playing to our potential, it’s upsetting if I feel like I’m not playing up to my standards.” – Chris Bosh
[from Doug Smith's column today]
Khandor,
That’s not the same situation.
Brent Barry was a starting point guard in this league before he ever arrived in San Antonio, and was used at the point by two other teams too. He’s also got terrific vision, passing ability and decision making …. not just for a wing but for any position on the basketball court. Ginobili is another player with similar attributes and someone who has played the point in the past like with his International team.
You’re not just asking for one player to shift, you’re asking for several players to either change position and then play in a lineup that has probably never played together – (1) Moon changing position (2) Parker changing position (3) Graham/Moon on the wings together – which is a lineup with below average passers, ball handlers, penetrators, shot creators at every position on the perimeter. Then you’re saying this is what Popovich would do.
I don’t see how you link your idea to Popovich.
Dave,
Sorry, I thought you were asking just about shifting Anthony Parker.
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IMO …
Exhibit C – Pop’s willingness to use Bruce Bowen as a starting Wing player, who couldn’t shoot a lick at his other prior stops in the NBA, but who found a home as a defensive specialist in San Antonio’s 1st Unit
Exhibit D – Pop’s use of wrong-sized players at the spots where they fit best, like Jerome Kersey, Malik Rose, Jaren Jackson & Mario Elie, in 1999
re: Brent Barry, as a PG elsewhere
To what specific situation are you referring? [e.g. when he first broke into the league, as a dunk champion]
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Parker has played PG before, in the Euroleague … and, in a different way to Will Solomon.
Technically, only Moon would be shifting to a ‘new’ spot, which he hasn’t played before … and, IMO, Jamario’s eyes wouldactually light up, at the prospect of such a shift, because that’s THE spot he has envisioned himself playing, in the NBA, since he first laced ‘em up back in Mississippi.
Khandor,
I wasn’t aware that Anthony Parker played the point in Europe, I thought he only played on the wing and mostly at shooting guard. I watch very little European basketball, my knowledge on happenings over there is pretty weak.
I presume, since you like the idea of him there, that he played the point well over there?
How much time did Parker spend at the point, a small amount or a large amount? Did he play any big games at the position?
That’s very interesting, I never knew that.
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Brent Barry was the starting point guard for the Sonics and played some limited time at the point at both Miami (I’m still disappointed Riley didn’t keep him around, he was a great addition to that team) and for the Clippers … at both LA/Miami he was used predominantly at the two guard and even then he was used on the ball and as a creator a good deal of the time.
I knew he played for another team in the NBA, but I couldn’t remember who, turns out it was Chicago, but I can’t remember watching him play for the Bulls so no idea if he got any time at the point there.
Jerome Kersey is another player who played both forward spots a great deal before arriving in San Antonio. Both Mario Elie and Jaren Jackson played both wing positions heavily before arriving in San Antonio. These weren’t new positions for them. Malik Rose was a power forward when he entered the league and he played power forward for Pop.
Bowen is another player, he was a major role player for the Miami Heat before joining San Antonio. Bowen had already established himself as one of the best perimeter defenders in the league before he ever played for the Spurs. He was a starter in Miami and played more minutes that season for Pat Riley than all but one of his seasons (all seasons fairly close to each other) since then under Popovich. The man was voted All-Defensive second team in Miami.
The one mark on Bowen at the time, like you pointed out, was his shooting. Most of the criticism was over-done, Bowen’s shooting was decent but unremarkable (33.6% on threes, 300 attempts in Miami). The situation is a lot like Jamario Moon for the Raptors today, they’re both judged unfairly and inaccurately for their shooting. Both were/are decent shooters (below par, but solid). After time and a lot of hard work Bowen turned himself into an excellent specialist three point shooter.
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I still don’t see why you’d single out Popovich and say it would be the lineup he’d use. The overwhelming majority of the lineups he has chosen when times are tough have been offensive orientated [offense usually San An's problem, defense usually great or not worried about], and lots of those lineups in recent seasons have been small ball lineups full of shooters+scorers, his best shooters. I don’t see why you’d link your idea to that.
Dave,
I just picked Pop as one example of a good coach who has been known to think and deploy his players from time to time in an unconventional way. I could have chosen someone else like Pat Riley or Phil Jackson or Larry Brown or Don Nelson or Bill Fitch or Chuck Daly or Nate McMillan [who, I think, gave Brent Barry the chance to play PG in Seattle], etc., just as readily.