A win tonight could heal a few scarsDownload the Opening Tip here.
Beating the Magic tonight won’t make up for last year’s playoff boot but it’ll give the team a real shot in the arm, just like a win in Boston would have . This game will serve as a very good measuring stick as to how well this Raptors team is capable of hanging with the big boys early on. So far we’ve basically won the games we should win and lost to the teams that are considered at par or better than us (Boston, Atlanta and Detroit). Aside from the Philly split we haven’t pulled an “upset” this year and that’s what we’ll be looking to do tonight. Jermaine O’Neal was signed for matchups like this and after last year’s humiliation at the hands of Howard, we’ll see how well our enforcer handles their power player. Finally, we’ll see if Sam Mitchell has figured out how to use Andrea Bargnani to the team’s advantage and whether we finally have enough weapons to slow down their wings and stop the dribble penetration that tore us apart.
Chris Bosh is glad that we’ve got Jermaine O’Neal to matchup with Dwight Howard so he doesn’t have to:
“We can matchup with him better, we got bigger bodies. I can wrestle with him but not for too many possessions because that starts to wear me down. Jermaine’s bulit for that a little more than I am.”
Makes sense, Bosh has a leaner body that isn’t built for continuous physical contact, O’Neal’s a much better banger since he’s heavier and stronger. The tale of the tape reads like this: O’Neal and Howard’s listed height is the same at 6′11″ and Howard carries 5 more pounds than O’Neal. If you put the two side-by-side it’ll hardly look like it and that’s because Howard is the team’s second-heaviest player but has the fourth-lowest body fat percentage. If you’re into physical fitness you’ll understand that that’s a simply insane occurrence. We’re counting on O’Neal to do a better defensive job than Rasho did last year (4.6/2.6) and make life uncomfortable for Howard by pushing him away from the rim and not letting him get those team-deflating dunks off of offensive rebounds that leave you with a sense of hopelessness.
Jermaine O’Neal can be seen quoted as saying a lot of the same stuff in Grange’s piece which looks back at the Magic series. The key is for Jermaine is to stay in the game and not pick up cheap early fouls, something that’s been a real problem. It’s hard to have an impact from the bench and if Howard manages to get him out of the game in the first quarter, suddenly the roster looks a lot like the one that got killed last spring. We also need to be very selective when providing O’Neal help by doubling Howard, last year unnecessary soft-doubles 18 feet out cost us a lot of three pointers. If you’re going to double, double hard and make him make a tough decision. As for the Lewis/Bosh matchup, Chris is saying all the stuff that we fans want to hear:
“I have to make Rashard work. I have to make him play defense, make him guard the post. Try to wear him down. I have to be aggressive attacking the basket, Dwight goes for a lot of block shots so maybe that’ll leave Jermaine open for offensive rebounds and even dunks after a short pass.”
That sounds like a damn fine game plan to me but just keep in mind that Jermaine likes to do the exact same thing as Howard on the other end. Lewis and Bosh are both 6′10″/230 but Lewis has a quickness advantage over Bosh and we like to think that Bosh is the stronger player that can have success in the post. Last year Lewis caused havoc by head-faking Bosh at the 3-point line, inviting the double and then finding Bogans, Evans and Nelson at the wings. Lewis isn’t going to torch Bosh one-on-one, it’s the shots that he creates that become the problem. If Bosh can prevent Lewis from creating for others off the dribble it’ll close down a lot of scoring avenues for the Magic.
Andrea Bargnani is likely to get the start in the same arena where the first iteration of the SF experiment failed in spectacular fashion. That was a terrible move at the time as it shoved Bargnani into a position he’d never played in the midst of a pressure-packed playoff environment. It backfired and made Sam Mitchell look like a fool. He tried again in Game 2 and once again the team got off to a miserable start. When he switched back to starting Jamario Moon, things evened out and we were still in the game past the first quarter. So what will Mitchell do now? Is Bargnani’s good game against the Heat enough to warrant a start against the demon that his Hedo Turkoglu? I say, why not? After all this is the regular season and we got to find out exactly what Bargnani is made of and whether there’s been any real improvement in his wing defense. Tonight we shall find out, where’s your money at?
The Bargnani at the SF experiment worked nicely for one game and I’m glad it did, but I’m frankly embarrassed that a great analyst like Jack Armstrong is even mentioning McHale, Bird and Parish in the same sentence as Bosh, Bargnani and O’Neal. They’re flat out saying that they’re not making the comparison but……..they are, otherwise they wouldn’t have said anything.
Rebounding is going to be a big deal here and we would all greatly appreciate it if Bargnani grabs more than 5 rebounds (season high). The Magic are 8th and we’re 28th in that department, a full -6! Hopefully O’Neal didn’t use up his rebounding quota against Miami and can help out with 10-12 tonight. Lewis is likely to move Bosh away from the rim leaving O’Neal and Howard to duke it out for any loose balls and Bargnani (and the guards) have to step in there and clean the defensive glass or suffer throw-downs that’ll make Bill Walton proud.
Stan Van Gundy’s pre-game talk revolves around counting on matching a motivated Raptor team’s intensity and going big against our bigs:
“They’re different. It certainly changes things, but we can go a little bigger now against them. Our guys have to understand where the other team is at. They have most of their guys back and we eliminated them from the playoffs. I know how we felt getting beat by Detroit [the last few seasons in the playoffs]. After being in five games, it’s a big deal.”
Jose Calderon is once again questionable for the game and given how well Will Solomon played against the Heat, I don’t think Mitchell should rush him back. Now, this isn’t Mario Chalmers he’ll be up against, it’ll be Jameer Nelson who’s simply a better player. It’s a much tougher challenge and don’t kid yourself if you think Stan Van Gundy isn’t going to test Solomon’s ball-handling abilities early in the game. We need to withstand any pressure and not turn the ball over because the Magic are very good at converting turnovers to fast-break points.
I really think we need this one to snuff out some of the negativity that’s going around these areas, there’s a fine line between realism and blatant pessimism, or between homerism and supporting your team. I’m glad that we have readers who are both ends of the spectrum because it makes the discussion that much better. But remember this: We are all Raptors Fans and that’s why we’re here so give each other a handshake. And if you need a conversation starter how about Eric Smith and Paul Jones in a Motel 6 with a Hi8.
One last thing, we’ve been getting a lot of “Raps” lately and have decided to pick one from the lot and highlight it on the front page along with its author and call it Rap of the Day. It’s a way of motivating people to write thoughtful comments and not one-liners which I personally consider to be the death of a message board. We appreciate your Raps and if you’re just browsing the site without saying something (and the stats say that you are), throw in your opinion. We dig any feedback you might have regarding the site, the content, the writing and just about everything else – just give us a shout at info at raptorsrepublic.com. Also, while my colleagues are busy canceling their season tickets, I’m dying to go to games, so before you tear your tickets in disgust, just let me know so I can take them off of you.
We’ll try to put the stream up again on the front page of the site since the response was so well-received last time. We need this win tonight. Really do. Let’s go you Raps!!!!
138 Raps
litmus test tonight.
i don’t like it when the teams franchise player says an apposing player wears him down, even if it does. not looking forward to bargnani at the 3 tonight. turkoglu is licking his chops!
Dwight went for a monster 10b 30p 19r vs OKC , the night before that 19r 29p outing vs Portland. His last game vs the Bobcats, yes the Bobcats, held him to a Clark Kent like 4p 7r 5b performance, but more importantly they made him foul out of the game. You ask me, he’s due a monster game vs his favourite victims.
I really don’t see O’Neal having a huge impact on him. The weight and height may be there, however D12 has cannons for arms while JO has tiny little legs and he can’t hold his ground well. I see D12 pushing him around with ease.
“The Bargnani at the SF experiment worked nicely for one game and I’m glad it did, but I’m frankly embarrassed that a great analyst like Jack Armstrong is even mentioning McHale, Bird and Parish in the same sentence as Bosh, Bargnani and O’Neal.”
Judging by your writing, you are much too young to of seen that Celtic team. Without Bird, the other two would not of made the hall of fame.
Son, you are no Jack Armstrong.
dying to go to games?? There has yet to be a game besides the season opener that has no tickets available.
Which, again, is sad when you have a few thousand GTA residents pissing and moaning about TSN2.
Raps Fan, Chris Bosh could donate a kidney and you’d find something negative to say about it. Dwight Howard wears a lot of people in this league down and they all admit to it after. Just like people admit that Chris Bosh quickness is a lot to deal with. I don’t know if you’re taking him saying that as “chickening out” or being scared but that’s the farthest thing from the truth.
Tinman, what gives? When did I compare myself to Jack? Seriously. I take it you’re agreeing with the analogy they’re making. I’m guessing our Bird would be……Bosh?
So… are you saying Bosh = Bird? Because even though I AM too young to have seen that Celtics team, youtube has shown me a mystical portal to the past that says otherwise.
AltRaps, I meant dying to go to games for free. Should add that in. See, I’m cheap.
Back to the game at hand.
I think when healthy both teams match up pretty evenly.
This year we have another big to match up against Howard(O’Neal) and I think Bargnani is a step ahead defensively compared to last year.
Prefer our chances with Jose in the lineup, but the Magic don’t scare me. This team would be a favourable playoff match-up for us.
IMO, those suggesting a comparison between
(i) Bird/3, McHale/4 & Parrish/5
and
(ii) Bargnani/3, Bosh/4 & O’Neal/5
would be thinking along those lines, right there.
I think Bargnani is a few steps ahead from last year. He’s shown a desire to play defense and he’s blocking shots, altering shots and moving is feet very well. The only thing missing is the rebounding. But he hasn’t been asked to defend the SF yet this season and as I said, we’ll see tonight how far along Bargnani’s wing defense is. I’m not as concerned about it as I was last year because if he gets beat I’m confident in our second line of defnese (JO). And even if JO/Bosh come over to help, I’m confident that the other will make a good rotation so that its going to take more than a dump-off to get a score.
Also, let’s not double Howard unless we need to. And if we do double, bring a hard double that goes all out and puts him under pressure to take a shot rather than make an easy pass out.
Arsen, –
Sorry, was actually making a play on words. Its a take on a quote from a vice-presidential election debate a few years ago.
——————-
re: I think when healthy both teams match up pretty evenly.
This year we have another big to match up against Howard(O’Neal)
——————-
Replacing Rasho Nesterovic with Jermaine O’Neal is not equivalent to adding ‘another’ big to match up against D12.
It’s equivalent to replacing Rasho with Jermaine … and losing Delfino, in the process.
——————-
re: and I think Bargnani is a step ahead defensively compared to last year.
——————-
It’s an individual match-up game, in the NBA, with collective ramifications, and what Bargnani has shown so far this season is that every time …
1. The opposition sets a pick with his check it’s going to result in, either:
(i) An open shot, or (ii) A foul;
and,
2. The Raptors miss a perimeter shot he is vulnerable in defensive transition, resulting in, either:
(i) An open shot, or (ii) A foul.
Thanks for you opinion Khandor
Khandor and arsenalist – you’re both right about bargs on d this year. He’s been far better in terms of aggression, quickness, and awareness. On the other hand, he’s still a far better defender against bigs than perimeter players. This a big part of why playing him at the 3 is problematic. Given what we’ve been getting from the three spot thus far, I think bargs’ defensive weakness on the perimeter is the lesser of the evils. (As compared to Jamario’s jumper and softness, joey’s general cluelessness, etc)
I think the Bosh/Barnagni/O’Neal 3’some compared to McHale/Bird/Parrish 3’some is a much sexier combo. I think if you had them all rub up against each other it would be quite a sweaty matchup causing a lot of splinters with the hardwood.
“It’s a way of motivating people to write thoughtful comments and not one-liners which I personally consider to be the death of a message board”
first post of the day: “litmus test tonight”.
I got a kick out of that. But I agree completely with Andiamo. I’m stoked for this game (sorry Flux, am I allowed to be excited for a game? I know its not game 6 of the NBA championship and all …) because its a great litmus test game. We’ll get an idea of how far Bargs has come since last year on both ends of the floor, and how effective JO can be at neutralizing an opposing dominating superhuman beast. We should also get to see if Solomon can pick up the perimeter D on Nelson, something that killed the Raps last season. It all makes for a very interesting matchup.
Tinman, this is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7gpgXNWYI
I just can’t get enough of the photo from the Globe today. It’s exactly how I picture the HO man. It is now my desktop background and it brings me great glee.
http://www.globesports.com/basketball
Here you go Alt,
arsenalist…does kobe bryant, kevin garnett, tim duncan, shaquille o’neal, steve nash, amare stoudamire, any of the great players in the leag say those sorts of thigns? it is one thing to say the opposition is tough, it is another to say they beat up on you.
and if bosh donated a kidney, i would rip him because it would affect his play. keep the thing for as long as you’re a raptor, and come out 100% and don’t let people beat up on you.
You mean we can post pictures here? : )
I don’t understand what the big deal is man? Garnett, Duncan etc all give compliments to other players and that’s what I took this as, if you want to read something into it that’s not there, that’s your own prerogative. I don’t think a single person reading this blog today took it that way.
He doesn’t have a choice of getting or not getting beat up by Howard. Howard does that to everyone in the league, that doesn’t mean they’re pussies.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, Khandor, I pray you start to post pictures.
Tinman,
Guess who?
Sorry, Tinman … looks like I haven’t quite figured out how to post images here just yet. : )
Guess who gave an interview to the FAN590 yesterday?
I also think we match up well against the Magic this year. We need O’neal to avoid the tick-tack fouls. The way I would play the Magic is to play the wings loose at first, giving up the shot. This is because our wings dont know how to cover both the drive and shot effectively. The rationale for this is to keep o’neal tight on dwight (not having to help defense on drives)and hopefully this encourages the magic to shoot and not look for howard. As we get mid-way through the quarter, i would switch up the strategy and pressure the perimeters hard and play them tight to pull them out of the comfort zone. I would probably want to play a soft zone when this is happening with the weakside defender playing a weak double on howard (if the offensive player is at the corner three, the weakside defender would be close to the middle of the key on the weak side). This would help with the drive. The only thing is that the weakside defender in this case needs to be athletic and be able to get to his defender in time. The lakers have used this to some success this year.
Who is that? Anyway, I’m going to bed. That game starts at 7 right? Just making sure – there won’t be a feed up for this game right? I’ll search out a watering hole on this side.
there’s a difference between giving a compliment/praise, and saying the guy beats up on you. frankly, i’m not big on players giving other players compliments/praise either. the league has deteriorated into a bunch of pansies. i miss the old school guys who came out on court, didn’t hug & kiss, maybe tapped fists, played their asses off, and left.
there is a huge difference.
and, btw … even once the correct identity is revealed, methinks that Raptoronto still might not want to believe it. : )
OK, here’s the pic khandor wants you to see:
The syntax for putting this up is <img src=”http://pathtoimage.com/blah.jpg”/>
Is that Rev. Jim Jones?
Darien, we’ll try to get you a feed.
Thanks, Arsenalist.
My money’s on either yertu or Flux to get it right first. or … of course … YOU, Arsenalist.
Congrats!
Arsenalist,
Love your posts. Best to tread carefully with the use of live streaming as it may expose you legally… unless you have dotted your i’s and crossed your t’s.
Agreed, RapsFan. I’ve seen Bosh almost become that type of player, which makes me happy.
It’s true…in between the lines, you are enemies, first and foremost.
No, don’t. I don’t want you guys going out of your way unless there’s a real need (like TSN2). There will most likely be a stream up on justin TV or channelsurfing.net so I’ll find a way to see the game.
If it comes down to one bucket to win the game Bosh better drive it hard.
This is a game for Bosh to make up for his lack of offense against KG.
This is game for Smitch to prove he can coach.
not against svg Paps…
That’s not Jim Jones that’s Mr. Colangelo photo-shopped by Khandor (aka Nostro) during his last scouting trip to Guyana. Hmmm, Cherry IS my favourite flavour, thank you Mr. Colangelo, how did you know? I am a “homer” because I actually think you have done a fine job, master. Thank you for pulling the wool over my homeristic eyes and fooling me into believing that I might actually like the NBA team I root for. I am a “homer” because I do not hate you or the team I support and actually would like some time to assess the team you put together for this season (9 freaking games!!!). I am “homer” because I didn’t expect the team you are building to be a championship contender two seasons after you took over our bottom feeding franchise and actually will give you time to build the team the right way for long term success. I am a homer because the future of the franchise looks so much brighter than two years ago before I took my first sip of your wonderful concoction. Does it come in Zeke, Gruny or Babcockian flavours? Oh it’s not for me, I’d just like to share some with some fellow Raptor “fans” who seem to forget what real swamp water tastes like.
Nostro (aka Khandor), do you actually think anyone didn’t know who that was? I didn’t think you could come off as a bigger Narcissistic condescending fool than you already do but you certainly prove me wrong over and over. Kudos, you are so creative and classy you are.
Just don’t drink his Kool-Aid !
I have to agree with Raptoronto’s post. This team is clearly moving in the right direction as compared to two years ago when Mr. Colangelo took over. What Raptoronto really needed to say MORE explicitly is that way too many “fans” in Toronto expect immediate results. This is totally unrealistic in the world of sports. Championship teams are built, piece by piece, and cannot simply be bought overnight (excluding the Celtic’s who were able to pick up two all-stars to add to their already established all star…still not fucking sure how that came to be…but I digress). Raptor fans are obsessed with their “win right now” mentality, and this is proven by the many calls to trade Andrea Bargnani. Trade him? Are you nuts? How long did it take Dirk to come into his own in this league? How many of these so called fans in Toronto can even name his rookie season, or who drafted him? Being a fan of a team means understanding its history, where it came from and where it is going. This team is positioning itself nicely to become an eastern conference contender in the years to come. There are long term plans and BC is the best man for this job. So stop crying, be patient, and look at the big picture!
The funny thing about the Kool-Aid reference is that those spouting it off are the ones you must have had a sip or two at some point…but I suspect they mixed their own drink! Some here are hyper-critical of Colangelo because they EXPECT this team to be a serious contender right now and then claim that Colengelo himself told them so. Hmmm, so who drank what kool-aid and when? Again, I wait for someone to show me the quote where BC says that this difinitively is a championship caliber team and I will join in on the critism. But anyone who thinks Colangelo put together a crap team and is intentionally trying to deceive Raptor fans is drinking their own fine brew.
Did anyone hear MLSE CEO Richard Petty on the Fan 590 yesterday, saying that “the door is open” for BC to go over the tax level, if the right deal comes along, at the trade deadline ?
Read it on Ryan Wolstat’s Courtside blog on the Sun.
Raptoronto,
Have you taken the time yet, and shown the courtesy, to answer the question which was posed to you politely in the thread below this one? [i.e. in comment #47, related to the content of your comment #45]
Instead of ‘trying’ to insult another contributor … who, btw, has yet to refer to YOU as a ‘homer’, in a comment on this site … it would be a welcome sign of ‘class’, on your part, if you could please do that.
It need not be a lengthy answer, either, if you so choose.
I love this site — it’s off to a great start.
Particularly, I love Arsenalist’s in-depth analysis. However, his bias against Mitchell infects his writing far too much and in doing so he loses credibility. This credibility is lost because anytime Mitchell is worthy of criticism, that criticism is devalued when it’s delivered by someone who is constantly criticizing Mitchell.
I recognize the beauty of a blog is that there are no journalistic restraints vis-a-vis bias and such, but if he’s really interested in people taking him seriously, Arsenalist will cool it a bit on the vitriol spat at and with regard to Mitchell, and instead focus on his cogent analytical skills.
Other than that – love the site!
Khandor…you seem to be the most intelligent poster on this site. Maybe the most intelligent ever. I can’t see why everyone thinks this Colangelo guy is ‘God’. Did he draft Vince Carter? No. Has he traded to get Vince Carter back? No. Does he even have Vince Carter’s phone number? No. And what about Jalen Rose? How is Jalen Rose not on this team? Unexcusable. The guy hasn’t signed anywhere. We don’t even have a Williams on the team. Since when does a Raptor team not have a Williams? Man, the Raps are going in the wrong direction.
BRING BACK VCVCVCVCVCVCVCVCVC
Whats the over under on Howard’s BA (blocks against) tonight? I am staying conservative at 2…
KHAN- you present yourself as an intelligent soothersayer so do I really need to outline to you, of all people, which “rap”pers are overly negative and/or hyper-critical and condesending of constructive comments on this blog?
…and you are calling ME out for insulting a contributer? That’s very funny.
Johnn19, Hey that’s good news. Maybe BC is doing his job and not just counting money with the MLSE board. While they gouge us on tickets, some of you guys need to ratchet it down a bit, even when it comes to obvious villains like MLSE. They’re allowed to make money. They ain’t running a hospital.
Rapstoronto, keep the faith brother, keep the faith. And don’t answer Khandor’s question, it’s like diving into a whirlpool – you’ll never get out.
i was kinda thinking about it and ironically what we desperately need right now in terms of athletic skill at our wing position is a player like vince carter. Now i am not saying we should go and get him (ill never forgive him for not giving 100%, claiming he will never dunk again, and his god awful annoying mom) but in terms of physical attributes, he would be the ideal player to push the raptors over the top. It seems that this team always is missing something. During that time it was a legit big man (davis was always undersized) and now we have a solid 4 big man rotation, now we need a wing man and back then we had mo pete, carter, rose.
…yeah, Howard was the only reason the Raptors lost last year..had nothing to do with Lewis, Turkoglu, Nelson or Van Gundy…or the fact that the Raptors are a team of weak chokers with a coach incapable of making adjustments.
Raptoronto,
Secondly.
If for some reason you are unprepared to answer that specific question which was posed to you politely … it begs the follow-up query:
What’s the reason for this?
[since it was YOU who made reference to some 'three or four' others here that YOU deemed to be 'negative' toward the Raptors, it would seem to be the polite thing to do, i.e. identifying exactly who it is you think the culprets are, so as to not paint others with the incorrect brushstroke.]
OK, so now we know where we all stand; I’m a kool-aid drinking homer, Khan (aka Nostro) is a condesending soothsayer and FLUX needs a hug…let’s move on.
Sam,
————————
re: Rapstoronto, keep the faith brother, keep the faith. And don’t answer Khandor’s question, it’s like diving into a whirlpool – you’ll never get out.
————————
If that’s the case … then perhaps, Raptoronto should simply not have said what WAS said, in the first place. : )
IMO, others can get themselves into a difficult situation when/if ‘They try to have their cake and eat it, too’ … a duplicit no-no.
hey ladies, what’d i miss? was actually working a bit (yeah, i know, weird, eh?).
khan – there are posters who have a bit of a negative slant (though i just read it as 15 years of pent-up frustration). if rapTO didn’t specifically name you, which is what i’m guessing is what’s got you so twisted, then assume he wasn’t referring to you. of all people, you should be the last one to DEMAND someone answer a question, since you seem as likely as anyone to avoid doing the same. i’m sure that you’ll now demand that i give an instance of this. ugh.
like there isn’t enough to discuss that actually pertains to the team…
oh yeah, they’re playing tonight. hmm…can’t see the 3-bigs lineup working overly well, but who knows, maybe bargs is THAT much better.
any word on jose? nelson seemed to significantly outplay the raps PGs last spring, the perimeter D was embarrassing, and dwight had his way in the post, at least defensively & on the boards (if he ever develops a consistent low-post game, it’s ovah).
hedo & lewis haven’t been shooting it overly well (so far) from deep. top to bottom, the magic match-up quite well against the raps (their strengths can effectively negate ours, and can ‘hide’ their weaknesses better than the raps can). wonder how much the loss of evans will hurt them down the road, i kinda doubt pietrus can maintain his accuracy from 3, though he’s an overall ‘better’ player.
I don’t need a hug. I need a LOB and a contender. Pop quiz: Name the last time a BC built team had a positive rebounding differential.
My only issue with people that praise BC and the Raptors, is that it seems that they are not willing to look at the negatives or obvious holes, and if they are they downplay them by saying: oh well, look at what was going on before, while simultaneously blowing up the positives to something much bigger then they are. There are many sites and blogs that point out (or as some seem to think criticize) BCs flaws,(if one was to actually look around) but god forbid someone did that on here. He must be a hater.
It funny how elite teams and their fans are critical of their players and GMs even when they are seriously contending for a chip or in the Finals, but the Raptors fan mentality doesn’t allow that with a middle of the pack team.. at best. Until the expectation bar around this team is raised from “round 1 is a success” to an “NBA ring or nothing”, this team is going nowhere.
Richard, thanks for the compliment. Do I like Mitchell? No. Am I fair to him? I think I’ve always given him credit when its due and criticized him when appropriate.
Johnn19, BC deferred the payments on Calderon’s contract to stay under the tax this year which was a clever way to save some money. Earlier in the year he said that he’d have no problem approaching the board if they needed to bring in a piece which meant crossing the tax threshold. Now Peddie says this, in my opinion, he can’t answer that question any other way. Coming out and saying “No, BC must stay under the tax” sends a very negative message out to the fans and he’s too smart of a business man to say that.
But its all a moot point because any acquisition we make this year will have to come via trade which means the incoming salary can’t differ by more than 25% which means we won’t be paying thaaat much tax anyway. Even if we trade our highest paid trade asset in Kapono, the most additional salary we’ll take on will be approximately 1.4M which isn’t even that much and is probably acceptable to MLSE. IMHO, the time to go over the tax threshold is in the summer by splurging over a big time free agent. Can’t do much in the mid-season trade market.
yertu,
———————-
re: if rapTO didn’t specifically name you, which is what i’m guessing is what’s got you so twisted, then assume he wasn’t referring to you.
———————-
In this specific instance … you know not of what you speak.
I suggest you first re-read both this thread and the previous one, in their entirety, to get yourself up to speed … then feel free to comment away, as you usually do.
The FACT IS … Raptoronto didn’t specifically name anyone but, in a sense, ‘cast’ his allegation against ‘everyone’, indiscrimanently … which is something I do not appreciate in the least.
I imagine if the Raps were to win 70 plus games and made the Finals, if someone was to utter a word that may appear critical, negative or point a weakness, I imagine the comments sections would be flooded with lined like: “Are you freeeaking retarded??? We are in Finals!! Do you know where this team was X years ago? Holy f you are hater, you need a hug!”
blahblahblahblah. you do know this is a blog right, not debate club? people are going to say whatever they want, a privelege we all use (and not everyone will agree with you. i know, it’s a bit of a shock. breathe.). if you don’t like it, you’re more than welcome to argue, insult, opine, whatever. why should i go back and re-read a nothing statement that only you seem to have a problem with? you’re making this big deal out of something that is NOTHING. a little sensitive?
OMG!!! i’ve (apparently) been disaparaged on the INTERNET!! whatever will i do!!?!??
finally…khan, what is your objective when you cast the ‘unknowledgable’ raptor ‘fans’ in the same light? is it not ‘casting an allegation against everyone indiscriminatly?
i guess it’s different when you do it.
whoa..let’s be clear: Jose approached BC about deferring payments. In NO WAY should that sequence of events be attributed to Colangelo.
Mr.Khandor, whoever you are, why don’t you take your sexual problems somewhere else!?
yert.. sorry that’s a little funny. It seem others are just, if not more sensitive when someone writes something that may be view as negative, pessimistic and critical of their favourite team. I took some abuse in that post yesterday, been called hater and an idiot, told i need to move out of my mother’s basement while today I am being told I need a hug. So, let’s review who’s making a big deal out of, apparently, nothing.
alt – uh oh, flux ain’t gonna like that…
Khan, surprisingly, your super-sleuth powers are unimpressive today so I present this dilemma in a fashion of your liking. It is not with or without merit that you find yourself in this predicament of perceived or non-perceived conflict. You deceive your own clarity, with a raw essence of khandor, and yet your call for justice is both muted and heard yet defined in the question and not the answer. Such is the word that can be identified, or not, that will bring light to you and your brethren. IMO this may be truth, or not, as IMO it is ill-timed as such.
This will be my last post on this subject, as it is perceived today, as based on the perception by those who clearly know such a thing, or not, the factual evidence of the past and future is forth coming.
What the fuck !!!…is this “as the world turns?” !!!!! enough already…time out go to your rooms.
Alt, I think it’d be safe to say BC asked and Jose agreed. I mean, c’mon, how many players will rather take their money later rather then sooner?
AltRaps, are you saying Jose did the math in his head and said, “Hey BC, I found this really neat way to save you some money, wanna hear about it?”
The rest of you guys need to take it easy man.
yertu,
Don’t make the mistake of assuming, again, that you know what I’m thinking.
Trust, instead, that you don’t. : )
With me, it’s almost always the more sure way to go.
[disparagement, or not, per se, has nothing to do with it]
——————————–
Raptoronto said that there were 3 or 4 people here who were ‘negative’ toward the Raptors. I simply asked, politely, who those individuals are according to Raptoronto.
Now, you tell me? What’s the big deal in that? : )
flux – yeah, i saw some of that. when posts get to that level, it’s just not worth the tiny effort it takes to post a comment, i just skip over it (which is where this thread’s heading).
the beauty of sports is that two people can view the same event/situation and come away with starkly contrasting viewpoints. sometimes, it’s even possible for some to accept that others feel differently without resorting to condascension, insults, etc. hey, i’m as guilty as anyone of tossing insults around, but, generally speaking, i’m an asshole. i don’t pretend to be otherwise. some people colour their insults behind polite babble, and then act offended when those they’re insulting actually realize they’re being insulted.
“What the fuck !!!…is this “as the world turns?” !!!!! enough already…time out go to your rooms.”
Bwahahaha
Comon someone throw some predictions and/or over/unders out here! Put your money where your ‘mouf is!
yertu,
———————–
re: finally…khan, what is your objective when you cast the ‘unknowledgable’ raptor ‘fans’ in the same light? is it not ‘casting an allegation against everyone indiscriminatly?
i guess it’s different when you do it.
———————–
THE Difference is … that Raptoronto said … there was but 3 or 4 of these ‘negative-type’ people here.
Now … once he says THAT … am I then out of bounds to ask Raptoronto politely, “Who those 3 or 4 people are?” … so that I can get ’straight’ who it is he might be referring to.
I know they’ll want to keep Bosh away from Howard when he’s on O but I’d love it if they started with Bosh down low in an attempt to get Howard to pick up some quick fouls, then go to JO down low.
khan – asking who it was that rapTO was referring wasn’t a big deal. repeatedly asking made it into one.
i would never assume to ‘know’ what you’re thinking. i do assume that you like to think of yourself as an unconventional thinker, and seek out what on the surface are obscure, irrelevent, hypothetical arguments, that can never be put to the test, and in so doing, you come across as some kind of out-of-box genius. at least, that’s what you’d like people to think. have at it, mr. hawking…
Bargs continues to perform. Turkoglu has a subpar game. Bosh and Lewis guard each other to a standstill. SVG is the “victim” of mistaken identity and gets to shoot a 3-way scene at halftime. One of O’Neal or Howard fouls out – and the winner of that battle to stay in the game probably comes out a winner.
Bet its a good game too. Raps 96 Orlando 90.
Arsenalist: “It’s a way of motivating people to write thoughtful comments and not one-liners which I personally consider to be the death of a message board.
You got that right, because one-liner blurts expressing one’s feeeelings soon degenerates into a shitchatting forum with a bunch of monkeys hurling feces hoping something sticks. Several topic threads have nearly descended to that level and then it becomes a two person chat room. It’s easy to slide into that cesspool .. for me too, but I now marvel at the increased number of participants on this new and vibrant bball forum.
khan – would you classify yourself as ‘negative’ in your posts? if so, then consider yourself part of his group of 3/4. if not, then don’t. i just don’t get why you think it’s necessary that anyone answer to you. despite how ‘polite’ you ask.
That’s just the thing, yertu – we all have different POVs and expectations. It just sux that the general consensus around this blog is that comments that are “pessimistic, negative, critical”, no matter how legitimate the view may be, are essentially not allowed because they are not in line with the “positive” ones. I took exception to someone calling the win vs Miami an OUTSTANDING and someone saying “oh look at the rebounding numbers now, haters” against a weak rebounding team. (totally not things that are not true or anything we need to get excited about,IMO) and then proceeded to get abused. Simply ridiculous.
yertu,
———————–
re: yert.. sorry that’s a little funny. It seem others are just, if not more sensitive when someone writes something that may be view as negative, pessimistic and critical of their favourite team. I took some abuse in that post yesterday, been called hater and an idiot, told i need to move out of my mother’s basement while today I am being told I need a hug. So, let’s review who’s making a big deal out of, apparently, nothing.
———————–
IMO, it’s important to understand the meaning and the context of what Flux just wrote there, especially the last two sentences.
Understand who is trying to put a muzzle of who here.
Understand who is being ‘negative’ here.
Understand who is trying to decide for everyone what a ‘true’ Raptors’ fan IS.
Understand who is trying to dictate what about this site qualifies as being similar to RealGM, or not; and whether THAT is somehow, either, a ‘good’ or a ‘bad’ thing.
FAQ – “but I now marvel at the increased number of participants on this new and vibrant bball forum.” This is why I had conflict with this venture. I knew that with the good, we would have to take the bad.
yertu,
——————–
re: khan – would you classify yourself as ‘negative’ in your posts? if so, then consider yourself part of his group of 3/4. if not, then don’t. i just don’t get why you think it’s necessary that anyone answer to you. despite how ‘polite’ you ask.
——————–
I don’t think I said that it was ‘necessary’ for Raptoronto to answer the question I asked. I think I said that it would be polite to do so … and, that if the question wasn’t answered it would then raise the follow-up query, “What’s the reason it wasn’t answered, in the first place?”
Whether or not I think I might fit into that category is frankly, irrelevant, to the question I asked, and irrelevant to the observation/statement/claim which Raptoronto made in the other thread.
The FACT IS … I was interested in getting HER/HIS opinion on the matter, not mine … because S/HE was the original comment contributor.
C the difference there, my friend? : )
flux – i guess the thing is, if you always fall to one side of the positive/negative fence, then doesn’t it become more difficult to take what you’re saying at face value? if it becomes routine to always seek out the negative, then that is what we’ll end up focusing on. i’m in no way trying to suggest that there aren’t negative aspects to each & every game, but in the grand scheme of things, if the comments always have a negative slant, then the criticism loses some of it’s intended purpose.
like the folks over at firesammitchell.com they have singular world view, which is to allow smitch haters a spot to vent. win or lose, good coaching or bad, the rhetoric is always the same, and there are very rarely any worthwhile discussions…the threads/comments just dissolve into posters bashing this & that, then each other.
think of it like a movie critic. if a critic only ever has negative reviews, how valuable are those reviews?
after every game, if all we wanted to do was focus on the negative, there would be plenty of opportunities. but overdoing it invalidates actual criticism. stating that JO’s 18 boards was an amazing feat is as useless as claiming that they were fugazzi, is it not? in every game, there are rebounds collected that ‘just fall’ to guys…and there are ones that are extremely hard-fought. they all count the same.
PS – if the heat’s frontcourt was so weak, why’d bosh only have 7 boards? was it only because JO was ’stealing’ them to pad his stats? could it not be the case that since his primary utility is to rebound & defend (well, that’s the story, right?), then doesn’t him going after all those ‘easy’ boards save bosh at least a little effort, so he can expend himself in other areas?.
khan – no. explain it again. use more words though.
Arse – I’m sure it was all part of the negotiation process – BC offered “X” amount more if Jose would defer etc.
On another topic – Most agree that Jose’s contract was either fair or underpaid. I lean toward fair as he’s at this point comparable to TJ Ford or Andre Miller… but in this league anytime a player isnt drastically overpaid its a bonus…
Khan – I did not personally attack you but you obviously took my statement personally. I apologize if you cast yourself in the same light as those to whom I offended, or not. Really, Khan, you are the most notorious cherry picker in this group and you relish taking shots at peoples even though your counter-points (if they can be called that) are often completely non-factual or unrelated to the actual point you decide to pull out of context. However, I will from this point forward, take great care not to offend your sensetivities as you offend and cherry pick the constructive thoughts of others.
FLUX – I’m with you 100% on getting a consistant winning team on the floor for our Raptors…that’s what binds us all to these chat sessions. Maybe our short term expectations differ greatly as does our faith in those who are empowered to make the decisions, but that’s perfectly fine. Where you and I cross is when you completely belittle anyone who makes a positive statement, of any kind, about the team you cheer for. Go back and read some of your posts and tell me you didn’t deserve a few cyber slaps for the slaps you were dissing out.
The main posts are always good at this site!
But some of these comments are pretty boring…hurry up and end this little feud, people. I don’t even think you guys know what you’re arguing anymore, it’s just semantics and abstract bullshit.
Doesn’t Bosh usually play well against Howard (offensively)? Maybe instead of just worrying about O Neal playing defense, Smitch should try and get Howard to foul out by repeatedly sending Bosh at him? Of course, it’s more than possible Bosh will settle for jumpers…
“Bargs continues to perform. Turkoglu has a subpar game. Bosh and Lewis guard each other to a standstill. SVG is the “victim” of mistaken identity and gets to shoot a 3-way scene at halftime. One of O’Neal or Howard fouls out – and the winner of that battle to stay in the game probably comes out a winner.
Bet its a good game too. Raps 96 Orlando 90.”
Give this man a trophy and an acting part in a SVG film!
yertu – you are right. Thing is, and I have explained this before; I am simply done looking at only the positives and babying this team aka building up false hope. Do I see positives? Yes, I do. Do I think any of them are contributing in a major way towards the ultimate prize? No, I do not. Therefore, I don’t see the value in pointing them out. If I were a blogger, I’d probably use them to try and balance out the obvious negative so I am not labeled a hater. Also, I am now in the “all or nothing” camp. To me, 1st round exits offer no consolation, what is the point of being a fan if all you expect and accept is that? And I simply cannot comprehend how, with our bench, anyone calls us contenders. People are calling us young and developing, but most of these players have shown us what they are made of in the playoffs and have plenty of bbal experience, so sorry if I don’t put much stock into their chances.
My point about those rebounds wasn’t really how the were collected, it was more the team they were collected against. The knock with JO and it’s now becoming one with this team is that he plays well when the competition is below him but shrinks when at par or better. Tonight really will be a true test of his contribution and value to this team and even if he does perform, do not expect me to rejoice as it’s a regular season game and Orlando has played a lot of games over the last week and a half. This team bets us nearly in every statistical category, yet people are predicting a win. I’ll count on their poor FT% for us to win.
Now about the GAME…very interesting match-up in Barges vs Turk and JO’s presence in the key on offensive will be paramount…will he be able to pull Superman away from the basket and open the lane for Bosh and Co.? Will JO convert on the mini-dishes he’ll be getting from CB when Howard comes over with the help D? If JO doesn’t play big we go down hard today.
I also think this game will show us allot about Mitchells ability to put a game plan together and make adjustments as necessary (something I think we can all agree is still questionable). There will be frequent mis-matches on both side of the floor and the winner will be the one who exploits them best or gets bailed out with some hot perimeter shooting.
This will be an intense game!
flux: ‘Tonight really will be a true test of his contribution and value to this team and even if he does perform, do not expect me to rejoice as it’s a regular season game and Orlando has played a lot of games over the last week and a half.’
no one would expect you to rejoice. if he plays well, it’s ok to say so, and if he plays poorly, then pile it on. it’s ok to say that the win doesn’t mean much, as long as the loss doesn’t mean much either.
Raptoronto,
Read again what I’ve written in this thread and the previous one.
Nowhere did I say something like “a personal attack has been on me” … by anyone.
The simple FACT IS … even if a ‘personal attack’ of some sort HAD been launched toward me … THAT is not something to which I would take offense.
================================
The simple FACT IS … you said there are but 3 or 4 individuals here that you consider to be ‘negative’ toward the Raptors. When asked politely to specify who those individuals are so as to make it clear who you are talking about … you have decided not to answer that question. Which, if that’s the case, you just should have said in the first place … Sorta like Richard Peddie, yesterday, in his interview on the FAN590. “No. I am not going to answer that question. Thank you very much, regardless how useful it might be. That’s my business, not yours.” Mr. Peddie is a master of THAT technique. : )
Man, there is no way Bosh and Lewis “guard each other to a standstill”. Can Bosh guard against Lewis’ threes, or can Lewis actually guard against Bosh’s moves? I doubt it. I think, if that is indeed the matchup, one of those guys is going to play really well while the other struggles. I’d put my money on Bosh because a three-point shooter is more likely to be inconsistent (see Bargani, Andrea). I think the key is probably the guards, regardless of who plays for the raps. When Nelson plays well, Orlando is hard to stop. Luckily he usually isn’t that good! Hopefully Calderon plays, at least a little, cause I think that might give the raps the advantage.
Khandor,
Why do you single-apostrophe random words in general. You are annoying
Bosh vs Orlando 07/08 (2wins 4 losses)
52%FG 3.9ORPG 8.6RPG 1.4STL 0.4BLK 2.1TO 3.6PF 26.6PTS
oh, rishi…you must be new.
You guys are insane. Talk about the game.
This is taken from the LineOMeter:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/statistics/line-o-meter/?season=13&player=Chris+Bosh&period=&opponent=ORL
Bosh season stats against the Magic:
Anyone agree that the raps in general should use the old pump fake your defender off their feet and go up to draw the foul? Especially Kapono on the 3pt line but everyone in general…
Hey Arse the LineOMeter is the ultimate tool. You guys should include something like that on every pre-game report IMO…
RT – completely belittle?! I’ll agree my (1st comment) approach was not the most diplomatic, but no where did I call anyone a name or comment on their lifestyle and needs, intelligence level or told them they need a hug. The only other comment was a response to your tirade.
Today is a new day.. moving on, I guess. And I hope the game is intense.
I agree with Jord about the standstill, but I got my money on Lewis. Could go either way, really. Hopefully, the Magic are tired, but then if we do win, how much stock do we put into it? I would rather both teams bring it so we can judge better where we are at.
Thanks Edgar, glad to see someone’s paying attention to the actual game.
I think pump-faking is easier said than done, most NBA defenders are tall and agile enough to contest your shot without leaving their feet (unless you’re Moon). For perimeter people, it’s only when you’re rushing for a close-out that a pump-fake is sold 100%. In Howard’s case, Bosh alluded to the fact that he likes to leave his feet and that’s an excellent point. Imagine if we get two quick fouls on Howard to start the game? Changes the entire complexion of things.
Arsenalist,
As evidenced in the Line-o-meter, how Bosh plays individually is rarely a determining factor in Raptors’ wins or losses vs the Magic. Look elsewhere, for the keys to victory or defeat in this evening’s game.
Arse, how about a JO vs Howard line?
LineOMeter can only pull Raptors stats for now. It’ll soon be able to do head-to-head and shit…once I get some time.
keys to the game:
- smitches adjustments to svg’s adjustments
- o’neal/bargnani/bosh against the magic front court aka howard
- how well we defend against turkoglu and pietrus (still wish we got him, he would have been perfect…)
Oh and apparently Lewis’s D had been something JVG is raving about, so I think he may give Bosh more trouble then we think.
Touche Arse but seems like atleast 3-5 times a game guys are bolting at Kapono on the 3 point line to contest – which is when he does his cute little 2 step penetration. Just think what getting fouled on the 3 point line once every 2 or 3 games could do to gain space on the perimeter…
A picture is worth a thousand words……
Wow.. it’s like RealGM all over again.. have to skim through pages of personal beef to get to the real comments…. So tonight my top 5 questions that might start to get answered are as follows:
1) how much impact did USA basketball have on Bosh (i.e. does he take it to Lewis/whoever is guarding him?)
2) Is Bargnani becoming consistant?
3)How much impact did the big man camp have on his defense, can he frustrate, push howard away from the basket once JO hits the bench
4) Does the JO acquisition give the raps more up front toughness to better compete with the “tougher” teams in the L?
5) Did Sam learn anything in the playoffs last year, or does he get owned by SVG again?
Crap, took too long to post my question, and now it looks like I totally plagarized them… LOL..
I don’t know if we put any real stock into the game. I mean, it’s early in the season and I mean, a win is a win and a step above a conference rival. A loss would suck, but still wouldn’t mean all that much. I guess every game is worth evaluating, but wait another 5 or 10 games before deciding what all these games (combined) mean for the future of the raps.
I disagree with you, Khandor, on whether or not Bosh is a determining factor in Raptor wins and losses vs the Magic. I mean, you obviously can read the line-o-metre like everyone else and I see what you mean, but Bosh is our best player. We might win without his best game, but I bet our chances go down significantly when he sucks. I could be wrong, but stats usually indicate hardly anything about reality.
1) He’s in better shape to start the season and is looking to be more aggressive in previous years. He believes in himself more now except when playing against KG.
2) Bargnani’s 4/5 defense is definitely better but his rebounding is still miserable. I don’t think he’ll ever be the rebounding force we want him to be but oh well, shit happens. If he can up his scoring I can look past it. Tonight is a test of his 3 defense.
3) See 2.
4) Yes
5) We’ll see tonight, right?
MY TURN!
1) how much impact did USA basketball have on Bosh (i.e. does he take it to Lewis/whoever is guarding him?)
Mucho impacto!
2) Is Bargnani becoming consistant?
Cannot Compute – Not enough Data
3)How much impact did the big man camp have on his(Bargs) defense, can he frustrate, push howard away from the basket once JO hits the bench
I dont see Bargs on Howard much at all – I expect the 2 biggest bodies (JO and Hump) will be chosen to attempt to neutralize
4) Does the JO acquisition give the raps more up front toughness to better compete with the “tougher” teams in the L?
Yes. Yes! YES!! oops…I think i had an accident.
5) Did Sam learn anything in the playoffs last year, or does he get owned by SVG again?
Coaches dont win or lose games – but they can help keep them close by motivating/quick reactions… most of it is gaining and instilling confidence with the players.
1) I think there’s more barking then ever before, bite is (about) the same.
2) Too early? (it’s funny how ppl say certain players need more time, while other are done – I do the same,btw)
3) He was giving it to him more then once in the playoffs last year, no?
4) More presence? Sure? Toughness? I don’t think so.
5) 1 game out 4 tonight, with different players. Let’s see.
Jord, I really don’t get the “let’s wait until one quarter of the season is done” thinking. Coming out of the gates is more telling, IMO, of what to expect then how the middle or end play out.
I dunno Flux the bite has increased – atleast statistically… and JO being tough is on display when points in the paint differentials are on display… but to be fair CB’s increased intensity should contribute
Edgar, where’s the bite in the 4th (against a good team)? Pulling a David Blaine scares no one. JO getting his shot blocked 4 times and coughing up the ball in the clutch is not tough, IMO.
Arsenalist,
Whether tonight’s game proves to be ‘a test of Bargnani’s perimeter defense’ [or not] will, at least, in part, be determined by:
(i) Who his individual check is … if the Raptors decide to go with their ‘big’ line-up of Bargnani, Bosh & O’Neal for major minutes vs Turkoglu, Lewis & Howard,
e.g. If Bargnani is matched-up vs Hedo on D, it’s a legit test of these skills for AB, IMO; but, if he’s matched-up vs Rashard, it does not fall into that same category. IMO, Turk is much better off the bounce than Lewis is;
and,
(ii) If the Raptors’ defensive game-plan involves ’switching’ vs Picks set by Bargnani’s check on the Magic’s ball-handling ‘guards’ [not their #3's, #4's or #5's].
e.g. If the Magic are going to set relentless picks with AB’s check on Nelson, Pietrus, Lee, and Johnson-A … then it’s going to be a long [or a very short] night for Il Mago, on the defensive end of the floor.
If the Raptors then decide to go zone … what % the Magic shoot from 3-ville, will go a long way toward determining the Winner-Loser of this game. If Orlando shoots above 40% on 3’s … coupled with an edge in Rebounding Differential … there’s very good chance they’re going to get the W tonight.
I know what you’re saying Flux, I don’t mean “wait until one quarter of the season is done” if we’re something like 1 and 8, you know? But we’re above .500 and I don’t think we’ve seen the best of this team (or maybe the worst). So I’m willing to wait for a little while longer and then evaluate what the team is like. I tend to think that the end of the season is key, like the last 20 games or so when teams start making real pushes for playoff positions. Although, if a team is already out of the picture, then of course the first 20 games mean something! I don’t know, but I like to reserve judgment for a few more games.
Actually, I’ve noticed something about Toronto fans (of the Maple Leafs and Raptors), each win is HUGE and each loss is absolutely DOOMSDAY. I’m not sure other fans act this way (though I could be wrong). I mean, I’ve lived in Edmonton and Vancouver and fans there definitely don’t respond to EACH game like Toronto fans do! It’s entertaining, but seasons are long.
I’m deliberating on who would be the best guard to whom regarding Bosh or Bargs defending Turk and Lewis… Lewis is a 3 pt chucker and Turk is more penetrating mid-range guy… tough…
I can’t see JO committing less than 3 fouls before the end of the 1st quarter, so I expect to see Hump out there playing hack-a-howard. Anyone else miss Pap Sow?
My call:
Magic 94 – Raps 87
Anyone else miss Pap Sow? – about as much as Jawai
Pap Sow? Why would I miss Pap Sow when we have Hump? As I said in the post if JO gets into early foul trouble this starts to look like Game 6 of last year’s playoffs. I can live with him committing a defensive foul or two but he’s got a tendency to do some pretty careless stuff like dipping his shoulders and pushing off when gathering himself to go up after an offensive rebound. We need his defense today, leave the offense up to Bargs/Bosh.
My call: 92-87 Raps.
My call is Orlando by 10 – not because i want it but O’neal’s due for a poor game and the lack of his presence both mentally and physically will be too much to overcome for this still soft team…
Man i cant explain how badly i want someone to throw it down on top of Dwight… just to bring him back down to earth.
Arsenalist,
I haven’t broken down every foul that JO’s has gotten, but it seems to me that at least ’some’ of his ‘fouls’ are attempts at drawing charges. The dipping of the shoulders and what-have-you are things that regular glass-cleaners do. Perhaps JO (six-time all-star) should get the benefit of the doubt.
P.S. Wicked site.
P.P.S. Do writers get paid to write on the site. It may be a stupid question but something that I would love to have answered.
P.P.P.S
on http://www.battersbox.ca I’ve read the excellent articles they post there about the Jays, and it has been implied that people get paid to write there, any comments?
jord,
——————
re: I know what you’re saying Flux, I don’t mean “wait until one quarter of the season is done” if we’re something like 1 and 8, you know? But we’re above .500 and I don’t think we’ve seen the best of this team (or maybe the worst). So I’m willing to wait for a little while longer and then evaluate what the team is like. I tend to think that the end of the season is key, like the last 20 games or so when teams start making real pushes for playoff positions. Although, if a team is already out of the picture, then of course the first 20 games mean something! I don’t know, but I like to reserve judgment for a few more games.
——————
An interesting tidbit of info, perhaps, for the ’stats hounds’ in these parts.
Saw an interesting correlation last week, in the NHL, re: the Win % of teams that eventually go on to capture the Stanley Cup, in a given year, which showed that ‘How a team peforms in its first 20 games of the Regular Season had a higher significance level than what that team’s Win % was in the final 20 games of the Regular Season‘. In sharp contrast to ‘conventional wisdom’, how a dominant team starts the season [or not] has a stronger correlation to its eventual finish, as the Champ, than how it does ‘Coming the Down Stretch’, i.e. when the playoff battle supposedly heats up.
Have yet to see a similar set of stats [showing significance either one way or the other] pertaining to the NBA.
Makes sence since many sports teams like the pistons take games off/rest vets for the last 10 games (or after seeding is established).
Rishi: Thanks for the compliment. I’m a big JO fan but he often looks a little clumsy out there and a lot of his fouls are very deserved (except that Boston blocking foul – that was a bad call). I don’t think the refs remember him as a 6-time All-Star, they remember him riding the pine in Indiana in a suit. My stance is to give him till December to find his groove. I think you’ll see him start hitting that little 8-foot fadeaway in the paint and finishing those layups in traffic. He’s coming off 4 injury plagued seasons and naturally needs some time to find himself. Those of you who’ve played the game know what I’m talking about.
Nobody gets paid here. In fact all the expenses of the site: graphics, hosting, promotions, software etc are all being paid out of pocket by the five people who started this thing. We really don’t want to put ads on the site unless we really have to.
Richard
Nov 18, 2008 1:23 pm | Permalink
I love this site — it’s off to a great start.
Particularly, I love Arsenalist’s in-depth analysis. However, his bias against Mitchell infects his writing far too much and in doing so he loses credibility. This credibility is lost because anytime Mitchell is worthy of criticism, that criticism is devalued when it’s delivered by someone who is constantly criticizing Mitchell.
Wrong.
If anything, he just gained my respect. Your entitled to say harsh/mean things if your knowledgeable about what it is your write about. People love that believe it or not. Sam Mitchell is a lousy coach. I wish more people in the media can be like asenalist and be upfront about his coaching faults.
Yeah, I read that piece on the NHL too. I’m too lazy to think right now, but how might those stats be skewed? I mean, a good dominant team probably wins a lot at the beginning and the end, right? And obviously a team that does well right out of the gate could easily be championship material (ex: Celtics). But there are lots of teams that suck to begin the year but make the playoffs and do pretty good (ex: Washington Capitals). Plus, isn’t San Antonio usually a slow starter? I think there are lots of examples of slow starters that eventually find their rythm (I can’t spell that word…) and do well in the playoffs.
Khandor,
Interesting observation, but how are you defining signifcance? Higher correlation would be my guess (as opposed to a regression). This is my interpretation of the correlation, in the first 20 games, all the best players play. Then during mid-season, there are injuries and what have you. Then during the ‘final 20′ if you are comfortably within a playoff spot, you can coast. The NHL is like any other sport, you have the best players ready for the playoffs, you win.
Johnn19
Nov 18, 2008 1:17 pm | Permalink
Did anyone hear MLSE CEO Richard Petty on the Fan 590 yesterday, saying that “the door is open” for BC to go over the tax level, if the right deal comes along, at the trade deadline ?
Read it on Ryan Wolstat’s Courtside blog on the Sun.
I think it was mostly for PR reasons. The CEO of a sports enterprise will not make a bonehead comment and loose all respectability by saying, No we will not be going into the tax threshold now or ever.
Yeah, the last 20 games don’t really seem to mean much, as contenders rest their starters, others play rooks, some play hard only to make playoffs (sell tickets) and get bounced.
The 1st 20 may not be a complete tell all, (Lakers last year), but still much more telling then anything else. Boston went out on a tear, and won it all. So…
Joey, it’s Peddie ; )
But the man, also, says a few other thing regarding this, that IMO are pretty telling in what he really thinks or stands. I think the door is very much closed, not open as some tend to think.
This is from Hollinger’s ESPN Insider article:
Jerry Stackhouse anyone?
The nba soft cap trade rules are not that simple that you can make a trade to pickup a contract and exceed the tax by 10 million. Its the old “contract values must be matched within 125% plus $100,000 of their outgoing salaries” which translates into “you cant cheat the system and pickup serious amounts of salary. The only thing i can think of that would factor in would be the remainder of the mid-level exception – If it hasnt expired yet(dont think so). To summarize exceeding the tax wont likely happen because there is very little flexibility in salaries when traded, BC would have to find a team willing to take our junk for a contributer, and by going 500,000 over the cap their losing millions in revenue so it would have to be a no-brainer trade that matches the above circumstances. No-brainer trades are generally few and far between on their own.
Arse i see your point and he has the right skills but it makes me worry to see that the even the Mav’s dont want him lol
Courtesy of Mr. Hollinger:
Scouting report: Stackhouse is a very strong right-handed driver who earns free throws by beating defenders with a quick first step and then exploding toward the rim. He doesn’t explode quite as well at 33 but still can get by people; when he doesn’t, he’s added a step-back jumper that he uses quite a bit from short and middle distance. Though he’s only a mediocre perimeter shooter he’s outstanding from the foul line, which nicely complements his ability to get to the stripe.
Stackhouse is a reasonably competent wing defender who has the size to play small forwards and still moves fairly well. He doesn’t gamble or take himself out of plays, but he isn’t much of a factor from the help side, and despite being a strong leaper has become completely useless on the boards.
Stackhouse’s health is another concern, as he’s virtually guaranteed to miss 20 games with some kind of hamstring problem — in his four seasons in Dallas he’s had 92 absences.
2008-09 outlook: Stackhouse will be the Mavs’ sixth man, and given the club’s depleted bench he might play more than the 24.1 minutes he averaged a year ago. Of course, to do that he has to be on the court, and he’ll probably only be available for 60 games or so.
Nonetheless, expect him to pump out another season of double-figure scoring, strong foul shooting and a shooting percentage right around 40. He’s 33, but when healthy he still has quite a bit of zip in his step — and as the go-to guy for Dallas’s depleted second unit, he’s going to need it.
ALSO: Stackhouse will not play in the Mavericks’ Tuesday night meeting against the Bobcats, the Star-Telegram reports.
Spin: Stackhouse has been vocal about his displeasure with his role and recently asked to be released or bought out. The 14-year veteran appears to have likely removed himself from the active roster for the time being as his agent explores the options for his client.
= likely signed by top 5 team to chase rings
The most telling games may actaully be the 20 to 25 right after the all-star break. Good teams are still playing starters and fighting for an early playoff birth and home court advantage, middle of the road teams are fighting to stay in the hunt and bad teams are fighting off officially being eliminated. Once you get within 15 games to the end of the season there’s too much tanking, resting and mental mail-ins to really make an accurate assessment. That’s why any team that unexpectedly catches fire at the end of a season gets a question mark beside their name in my books.
I think all the games are meaningful, the only reason some say the first 15-20 aren’t is because they’re not indicative of how good the team might be and that’s because players are getting acclimated to their new teams. After that teams try to win every single game possible, the only exception being towards the end of the season when the top seed has clinched everything or when a team’s playoff positioning is set in stone, but those are only the last 5-10 games of the season.
“Raptoronto wrote: That’s why any team that unexpectedly catches fire at the end of a season gets a question mark beside their name in my books.”
True in any sport, the best example are the BlueJays, those guys end the season of with such a bang that the GM is teased enough to not blow up the whole operation hoping what he saw in September was the “real” team. Come April its back to the same old nonsense. The Jays have been stuck in this cycle for the last 13 years.
I think Battier would be as good as any for trade targets- he has a 3 year contract at a reasonable price that houston may want to ditch to get into the 2010 frenzy – and he’s their 3rd wing at best. As a player he’s essentially the original Anthony Parker.
Battier would be amazing! But he’s one of the best defensive players in the league, no way Houston is giving him up without getting a lot in return.
If the raps want to trade for someone, we’ll have to aim low, unless we want to trade Bargs, which I wouldn’t want to do. We have NOBODY to trade for anyone good. Graham is not good enough to play in the NBA, Moon is less than average, Kapono might be decent for the right team, and Hump is a blockhead.
I think we might have to be happy with this team, unless we sign some free agent or pull over a euro.