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It’s Philly looking for revenge tonight at the ACC but its hard to focus on this game with what happened on Monday. That loss hurt enough to bother me for another couple weeks, just long enough until we play Boston again. So circle Sunday November 23rd on the calendar and move on, because until then we’ve got business to take care of. We got 5 games till then and going 4-1 or 5-0 in this stretch against PHI, MIA, @ORL, @MIA and NJN will help erase that Boston memory. You’d think Miami and the Nets would be routine assignments so the two ‘message’ games are Philly and Orlando. Philly’s a miserable 2-5 and is in the cellar of the Atlantic. Things just haven’t worked out the way they were supposed to but that doesn’t mean they’re not capable of stunning us if we show any sort of complacency or ill-effects from the Boston affair.
I refuse to give the Bargnani trade talk any value. He’s not going anywhere because there is no way Bryan Colangelo trades him after insisting that the kid needs at least 3-5 years to peak. It would also be admitting that he screwed up the #1 pick which I don’t see him doing anytime soon. We’ve heavily invested in Bargnani and have seen him go through a summer regiment that has yielded some success. It doesn’t make sense that Colangelo would give up on Bargnani after one bad year under a coach that has trouble using what he’s got. I’m not saying Bargnani won’t be eventually traded, he might but it won’t be until Colangelo’s damn sure that he’ll amount to nothing and before he makes that decision he’ll have to see Bargnani play for a real coach. The proposed trade is a package involving Bargnani for Al Harrington and Gerald Wallace. We’d have to match Wallace’s 10M salary by throwing in someone like Graham and fillers. What do you think? Personally, I think this entire article by Hoopsworld is just to get some cheap hits out of the billion Raptor fans that are online. Lame c*nts.
Four Raptors were named to the All-Star ballot: Bosh, O’Neal, Calderon and Parker. The complete list is right here. There’s also word that Chris Bosh will once again be shooting little videos to promote himself for the All-Star team but this time he’ll be shooting along with O’Neal, Calderon and Parker. I know, its not what you want to hear coming off the heels of the Boston game where he hardly looked like an All-Star but that’s just his personality. Anybody seen the KG promo ads? No? You haven’t? Oh, that’s right, that’s because they don’t exist!
I was reading Mike Ulmer’s blog (I know, I know) and I came across yet another aggravating quote from Sam Mitchell about the Boston loss:
“It’s still hard to get too upset about our defence. Our defence has been solid. We just didn’t hit some shots that we needed to hit and they hit some good shots. Those things happen…Jason did a pretty good job guarding [Pierce]. Great players make tough shots sometimes.”
Honest to God, I really think this guys’ understanding of basketball is as simple as taking, making or missing shots. Mitchell arrogance continues as he refused to admit that he might’ve done anything wrong in the Boston game-plan:
“Write what you want to write, but I’m not going to get into why I do what I do all the time because I have my reasons for doing it. And I saw what I saw and those are the plays that we ran….If two guys are guarding Chris, he’s done his job. So if he did good enough for two guys to guard him in the first half, and we had a 16-point lead, and the same two guys are committed to guarding him in the second half, and he’s done his job, what’s the difference?”
Don’t you just hate KG?Hmm. That’s like saying Michael Jordan’s job with the Bulls was done once he drew the initial double team. According to Mitchell at that point all MJ’s remaining responsibility was to pass out of the double and hope Bill Cartwright or John Paxson do the scoring. Such bullshit! I could even settle for him saying that we made some mistakes and will correct them the next time we play them but you can’t even get that out of this guy. Instead it looks like he’ll do the exact same thing over again the next time we play them. I think the first half is clouding his perception of how this game actually went – remember we got blown out by 19 in the second half, 58-39, so nothing went right past the second quarter. I’m all for learning from the positives of a game but he’s acting like Boston’s intensity level was the same in either half and that we played well the entire game and got narrowly beat. That’s the farthest thing from the truth. Feschuk’s basically saying the same thing here.
Jose Calderon’s giving his two cents on what he thinks about Kevin Garnett howling in his ear like the lone wolf and wagging his finger. Jose takes it in stride as he should, he’s not moaning about how Garnett should’ve got a technical, deep down he’s probably dying to play with a guy who plays with that kind of emotion, regardless of the twat of a personality he might be.
Chris Bosh is saying that the Raptors need to bury the opponent when they’re on the ropes:
“When you have a team on the ropes, you have to go ahead and bury them. When you let them hang around they’ll make you pay, especially on the road. We have to take that as a learning experience.”
I don’t think Boston was ever “on the ropes”. Being down big at home against the Raptors in the first half isn’t exactly anything to be scared of. The Raptor teams of the last few years have blown 16-24 point leads fairly consistently so opponents know that the Raptors are capable of going into an offensive funk while letting their defensive guard down. It’s a cliche but no game is over for us until its actually over. The problems with the Raptors is that they get nervous in the big games and quotes like these are confirmation of that. Approach every game the same way – with a killer instinct and a serious attitude that does not accept losing and excuses. There’s no need to voice out what the team needs to do over and over again, just do it. We’re tried of these sort of quotes which hint at the team still finding themselves and figuring out how to play. At this point in your career, knowing when to bury a team shouldn’t be a learning experience, it should be routine.
Well, we’re 1-3 in our last four which can only mean a 9 point drop in The Dirty 30. Our opponent tonight is 6 spots below us and looking like a failed experiment. They’re having serious issues trying to figure out how to use Elton Brand’s post strengths while not marginalizing Andrea Iguodala. This has resulted in their offense being almost as bad as ours (22nd, 23rd), so look for tonight to be much like the first encounter – a battle of attrition that’s won by the team that finds their offensive groove. Of course we can’t afford to be out-rebounded by a 56-33 margin again and have to once again force Philly into those perimeter jumpers they can’t make.
Philly tonight. We’ll do a live blog, I’ll be at the game but we’ll open the chat and I’ll see how fast I can type from an iPhone. There’s also a new poll up. Results for the old poll are here. Let’s go you Raps!!
75 Raps
why is it that when o’neal got that first block of he season, and finger wagged we said the man has swagger, but when garnett did it to us, he’s a punk and should have got a technical?
because O’Neal was lying on his back at the time and the ball was out of play.
Exactly Raps Fan.
Also, Mike, Dikembe received Ts when doing the wag after knocking shots out of bounds.
Garnett did a lot more than finger wag, lets be honest. He chased Jose up through the backcourt and taunted him shamelessly. That’s unacceptable in any sport. Intensity is one thing, sportsmanship is another. Stop comparing JO’s finger wag (done for entertainment purposes first and foremost) and Garnett’s distasteful actions of the other night.
WWHHHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT!!! no andrea on the all-star ballot? FOR SHAME!
I’m admittedly on the fence with the verbal assault up the court. Jordan did it. In this case, Jose gave it back and he didn’t get a T either. If the zebras were going to hand out any Ts, they would have at the end of the quarter with the barrage going back and forth.
I used to lukewarm-like Pierce…until the playoffs last year. He came off as a pompous ass and I puked when he won MVP. I give Garnett a bit more room because he has always played with intensity, even in the lean Minny years.
In the case of HO’Neal, the wag came after a block, which has been called lately. I’m not concerned that it wasn’t, but as RapsFan says, I’m concerned about what the fans are using as a double standard. Our guy does it, cool, somebody else does it, uh-uh.
At the end of the day, when all is said and done, what I come away with is a team that didn’t stand up for itself when taunted and, more importantly, gave up a nice lead and didn’t fight back. Not good signs for a team that, according to most, improved its toughness this year.
RapsFan and I were chatting before the game and he predicted that the Celtics guards would run a train on our guards. Unfortunately, he aimed low….
Parker will be an allstar and hit a clutch 3pter to give the East the win.
i like pierce. he has the attitude that wins championships. if he was a raptor, we would be licking his balls, no questions asked. as for garnetts taunting…it won them the game. the mental aspect of the game is what separates champions from everyone else.
this team has been weak since the days oakley/davis/j-williams/a-williams. o’neal has done nothing more then protect the paint. i assume he is nervous about things getting out of hand since the detroit fiasco. bosh has no excuse. jose stood up for himself..sad.
the toughest guy on the team is still mitchell who was the only person to defend tj last season when he got raped. until the raptors fix this, they wont have playoff success. cause when you get into a best of 7, it’s heart and grit that wins games, more so then talent (a little hip check by horry on nash was the turning point a couple years ago).
the thing about pierce that irked was the post-game press conf., where he milked his injured hand (convenently well wrapped & iced), and played it off all cool like, basically saying it’s really been bothering him & affecting his game, with the not-so-subtle jab at the raptor ‘defenders.’ as in, ‘just imagine what i coulda done with two good hands, bitches.’ what a hero, able to play through the pain. i was a little surprised they didn’t cart him out in a wheelchair while hooked to an IV bag, poor soul. they had KG there to hold his hand, it was really sweet.
1. The focus on the ‘taunting’ in the game against the Celtics is totally misplaced.
2. Arsenalist,
Simply put …
What you think happened in the Celtics game is not accurate.
What Sam Mitchell has said … on the other hand … is accurate.
Just because you may not like or accept Sam Mitchell’s explanation does not mean that it is anything less than correct.
Decision-making and execution … by Jermaine O’Neal, Jason Kapon and Anthony Parker … coming down the stretch of that game, is what cost the Raptors a victory, not the coaching of Sam Mitchell or the play of Jose Calderon or Chris Bosh.
Your current Poll asks “If you were BC, how would you respond to the first 7 games of the season?” So, where is the most obvious option: FIRE SAM!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? What’s our record against winning teams?
There you go Boko, added the option. Don’t tell us we don’t listen to the readers.
Khandor, agree to disagree. Just because something worked in the first half doesn’t mean its going to work in the second. They’re called ‘adjustments’ and Boston made them. We thought we could follow the same recipe and succeed but got blown out. If JO and Kap had a good first half, it doesn’t mean we have to ride them the whole game, it means we have to look to get other players off. Blaming the loss on those two is asinine.
Arsenalist,
What adjustments did you see Boston make?
Saying that someone else’s assessment of what happened in a game is ‘not correct’ is very different than, on the other hand, saying it’s ‘assinine’. : )
hypothetical question: suppose it wasn’t jo/kap with the good first half, but bosh/calderon. and they were invisible the second half? would that be smitch’s fault that his franchise players didn’t cut it?
khandor/arsenalist: i think both parties are to blame here. the players and mitchell. the players for not doing their job, and mitchell for not making an adjustment. just putting a guy in hoping they make plays/shats wont win you the tough games. sure jo/kap couldn’t make things happen with the same looks they were getting to begin the game, but graham/humphries weren’t used either when they had a good 1st half. interesting that moon was yanked and talked about after wards by mitchell.
don’t do it…
They started ball denial on O’Neal. Notice he wasn’t catching the ball as easily in the post anymore and when he did there were 4 seconds on the shot clock. They started playing physical on the screens, notice how Parker or Calderon couldn’t free themselves off the pick ‘n roll or back-screens anymore. The pick ‘n roll was basically negated every time in the second half whereas in the first half we got either the ball-handler or the pick-setter some space. Since that’s basically our only play, the entire offense suffered. At this point we needed more traditional forms of scoring – give ball to big man, incite double and swing the ball. That never happened. Overall, the Celtics upped their defensive intensity and we thought that we could score as easily in the second half as we did in the first which was a very wrong thing to assume.
uh oh…
here it comes.
wait for it…waaaiit for it.
Prepare yourself for a whole lot of italics, bold fonts, lines and condescension…
i’m giddy just thinking about it. damn, i have a meeting in 10 minutes…please, let there be a response before then, so i have something to think about for that hour.
I have a meeting at 10 too.
I’m surprised nobody’s talking about the Bargnani trade talks, however made up they are.
‘I’m surprised nobody’s talking about the Bargnani trade talks, however made up they are.’
most realize BC can’t trade the big retard w/o losing face. without bargs being included in a deal, i kinda doubt they’ll be able to find anything substantially better than what they already have at the 3. hey, maybe then can find another PF?
I’d just like to say I enjoy Khandor’s responses. Not only do they illustrate his mastery of the formatting palette, but I can print them off for some much-needed bathroom reading.
Yertu/Khandor, if I can’t get you two fruit-loop wrestling, then a rock-paper-scissors contest will have to suffice.
LMAO
Would you be crying about KG if he were on the Raps? I don’t thinks so. People are only hating on his tactics because they work well on the Raps. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in the KG hate camp, but dude smelled fear from a mile away and he pounced on our guys.
Ironic we are called the Raptors, yet we scare no one. Teams know and have known for years, we just don’t have what it takes when the pressure vice starts turning, so they can afford to do what Boston did – take a half off and then stomp the MFs out in the other.
I was saying that yesterday too, about Sherm, and now CB4 is coming out with the “Learning Experience” quotes. Incomprehensible and inexcusable.
agreed, 5 years in, and bosh should be past ‘learning experiences’.
Was there no Raptors roll-call for the Celtics game? Anyway, we should be able to beat Philly to stay out of .500 land. How much and for how long is another matter altogether, but it looks like we have a string a winnable games and I WANT THOSE WINS.
Here you go yertu, it’s a pleasure to make your day [: )] …
———————-
re: They started ball denial on O’Neal. Notice he wasn’t catching the ball as easily in the post anymore and when he did there were 4 seconds on the shot clock. They started playing physical on the screens, notice how Parker or Calderon couldn’t free themselves off the pick ‘n roll or back-screens anymore. The pick ‘n roll was basically negated every time in the second half whereas in the first half we got either the ball-handler or the pick-setter some space.
———————-
This is not what happened at all … from a technical basketball standpoint.
* There was no increased denial of passes to Jermaine O’Neal.
* What the C’s did to alter their ‘Pick & Roll’ Defense had nothing to Garnett and the Ball Defender.
* What the C’s did on D, had to do with what they did ‘tactically’ with the other 3 defenders on the floor, and the designated rotations they employed to counter-act what the Raptors were doing on Offense. If was a subtle ‘adjustment’ that you and others might not have been able to pick up right away … and, one which was never identified properly by the Raptors team of broadcast commentators.
Although you might not want to get too technical … without understanding this type of stuff … a fan has no clue what s/he’s really seeing when s/he’s watching an NBA game, either on TV or in-person.
———————-
re: Overall, the Celtics upped their defensive intensity
———————-
In sharp contrast … this is part of what happened in that 2nd Half, and specifically during the 4th Quarter.
———————-
re: and we thought that we could score as easily in the second half as we did in the first which was a very wrong thing to assume.
———————-
This is not accurate and a version of ‘mind-reading’, on your part.
==========================================
Go back and look at the tape of the game.
In the 1st Half, count the number of ‘Pick & Roll/Pop Actions’ the Raptors used to generate scoring opportunities which they then converted into to Points.
Then look at the 2nd Half and count the number of ‘Pick & Roll/Pop Actions’ the Raptors used to generate scoring opportunities which they then converted into Points.
Are these numbers and percentages similar?
Are they different?
What is it you think the Raptors did well to generate high percentage shots in the 1st Half?
Do you think they tried to do the same things in the 2nd half?
Or, did they actually try to do something different?
Or, did Boston make them do something different?
Were the Raptors players capable of responding correctly to counteract the tactics which the Celtics employed during the 2nd the Half/4th Quarter?
In order to make these assessments correctly … first you have to recognize and understand what the tactics are in the first place.
And … trust this much … Sam Mitchell has no intention of explaining them to you or anybody else, in a public setting … nor should he, IMO, as an NBA head coach.
Sam said what he said, after the game, and in his interviews since then … which was the right/correct thing for him to say, IMO … whether you like or accept or understand it … or not.
THE ANSWERS are to be found in the ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL … whether it’s an academic exercise or analyzing a work of Art or How an NBA game actually works, makes no difference. : )
No, sorry Darien. Some family issues came up toward the end of the game that pulled me away overnight.
Great points in your comment up there, Arse, but the one issue I saw was that Bosh and HO’Neal were covered pretty well in the second half, making it difficult to feed your bigs and pop it back out. I think you will see that tactic used against us as the year goes on, depending on the size of the opponent.
One thing that could have helped, that we seem to have gotten away from the last 2 seasons, is swinging the ball on the perimeter. Swing it around, jab-step, pull the weak defender in, re-swing to the open man.
moon doesn’t know what swing means in a basketball context. swinging opens up space when more then 2 passes are made. he’s the raptors black hole on the perimeter.
hope the family issues have been resolved man :S
Dan H,
When you get around to reading this … please recall what we were discussing a while back … I think it was with you, if I’m not mistaken … and the sorts of specific rotations I explained to you that the Raptors would be running into when their opponents would be high calibre defensive teams rather than the run-of-the-mill variety.
Remember the diagram I put up on my blog?
Well … although this is a slightly different situation because the Raptors were running a different sort of P&R set in this game against the Celtics … similar rotation principles were in fact still at-work in this scenario … as the C’s refused to be beaten by either Bosh or Calderon, like they were last year … i.e. when Jose turned the corner and scored off that driving layup AND1 play … and, in this game, made the Right Choice for the Raptors two best players to be Trusting of their teammates’ ability to hit the shots presented to them within what the Raptors were running in their half-court offense.
Coming the down the stretch …
O’Neal [TO]
O’Neal [Missed J2/BS]
O’Neal [TO]
Calderon [Missed J2]
Parker [Missed J3]
Kapono [Missed J3], and
Parker [Made J3]
because of what the Celtics did tactically on defense, which forced certain Raptors into making certain passes and taking certain shots which they didn’t make, in this specific game.
End of story. : )
I really think that Joey had a good showing in the last game and deserves some more playing time. This strategy could be the best motivation for Moon to get his ass in gear and do what he has no doubt been told to do…get aggressive, rebound and drive to the rim.
Discuss…
Raps Fan,
I’ve heard that specific criticism of Jamario Moon from certain others, as well.
It is simply not accurate, re: Moon’s bball IQ.
When Sam Mitchell says in one of his interviews,
“Jamario Moon is a very smart basketball player”
… which I heard on RaptorsTV yesterday, he is not making this up.
Although Sam Mitchell doesn’t always tell the whole truth in a public interview he doesn’t lie or make things up which are false.
[there's a key difference between those two types of statements coming from the mouth of an NBA coach ... (i) something which is true but, also, less than the complete truth, and (ii) something which a lie/falsehood]
Jamario Moon is a highly intelligent basketball player … who is still learning how to play effectively in the NBA.
Yeeesh, that is the most pedantic shit I’ve ever read. You’re splitting hairs between “responding correctly to the Celtics tactics” and “adjusting to the Celtics tactics”. Here’s what I know: in the first half pick ‘n roll was more effective. In the second half, it wasn’t. I don’t have time to look at the tape play-by-play, I saw the game and saw the game again, that’s good enough for me.
We didn’t do anything too different in the first versus the second half, the only difference was Boston upping their D and running a tighter ship on offense by moving the ball much more efficiently. We tried milking O’Neal and Kapono like we did in the first half but O’Neal was D’d up at this point and Kapono got torched. Simple. Shit. Really.
Also, Sam Mitchell did explain his tactics, remember Bosh was a decoy. I really don’t want to get into these boring conversations so I’ll let you have the last word and I’m sure you’ll end it with a fucking smiley face.
Okay, bro … it’s your choice.
IMO, NBA hoops is a great game, if you take the time to understand it thoroughly.
If not …
It’s like saying your opinion on Voice of Fire is THE right one, because it ’stinks’ according to your taste in Art, and how you feel about it.
if moon is a very smart basketball player, what does that make calderon, parker, bosh? the wooden’s of the nba? i can buy that he knows what he should be doing, and what should be done. but i can’t buy that he is very smart.
mitchell can say whatever he wants about anyone, but he has his players backs for the most part. the effort is there, but very smart players don’t try and take over games when there are 3 or 4 better players on the floor who can do it better.
and they sure as hell don’t jack treys when guys named kapono and parker are one swing pass away.
Those weren’t coaching strategies bro, Celtics just upped their intensity.
The only strategies I saw Boston make was,
1. Pierce and House Screen, To put calderon on Pierce.
2. Garnett Staying with Bosh on pick and rolls
Sam Saw #2 and
1. Made Bosh come off of a down screen, to set a screen for Jose
Our offence stalled because Jose constantly picked up his dribble to soon, he should’ve came off the screen, penetrated as much as possible and swing.
Overall Coaching during the game doesn’t have a tremendous affect, besides getting the official to notice something, substitutions, pick and roll defence (switch, hedge etc)………………but I agree with Mitchell, Celtics just player harder, and just made “shats”.
Basketball is about the players, not the coaches.
Coming the down the stretch …
O’Neal [TO]
O’Neal [Missed J2/BS]
O’Neal [TO]
Calderon [Missed J2]
Parker [Missed J3]
Kapono [Missed J3], and
Parker [Made J3]
You’re acting like these were good shots that should’ve been converted and since they weren’t, Sam’s exempt. These were low percentages shots coming out of a timeout. Coming out of a timeout. Coming out of a timeout. Coming out of a timeout. I can’t stress that enough. Our fourth quarter offense is predictable and easy to shut down and that’s why we have a great record against shit teams and a poor one against the good ones. It’s because when a good team decides to play D, we have no answer. We still try to run shit that worked in the first quarter but the stakes have changed. It’s time for the players to step up and win you the games and its the coach’s responsibility to present them with that opportunity. None of that happened against Boston.
Anyone know how many times the Raps got to the line in the last game? How about in the first half vs the second half? When the SHATS aren’t falling then go to the rim!!!
Isn’t that more of a reflection on the group of players though? We have nobody that can create…………Is it possible to design a play, in which jason Kapono can get open? Anybody from 2-5 can guard JK and run him off his shot, so he has to do that indecisive half penetrating crap.
But when he doesn’t get shots people blame Smitch. AP is usually to drained in the 4th to do anything besides play defence, and Bosh and O’neal can only post/face up from wherever. Therefore what type of shit do you want the Raps to run? Adelman’s Motion Offence, Maybe Sloan’s? Our roster is far too easy to guard because of the roster not the coach (although he’s easy to blame).
what is the point, incidentally, of continually linking to that site, khan? that you’re so much better able to discern multiple facets of a situation? i think you may be missing the point of the article…you have your set of beliefs, and am unable to consider another perspective.
i know you *think* you’re being helpful by scientifically breaking down why it is you believe yourself to be correct, but all that is based on the simple notion that you believe yourself to ‘understand’ more about this game than anyone else (at least, anyone who posts anything on any blog). is there no possibility that you may be incorrect your assumptions?
i second-guess myself all the time…and despite what you may think of me, i don’t assume that what i believe is automatically ‘correct’ just because it’s something i believe.
in addition to firing Sam Mitchell, I think we should trade Chris Bosh for Joey Dorsey and anyone else who will make this team tuff. if we are tuff we will win playoff games. we also need players who don’t learn stuff because players who need to learn stuff aren’t tuff. we should also ask the government to make guns legal at Raptors games. this will make us tuff. we must be tuff
Sho & RapsFans, on their respective posts, hit it on the head with respect to players/coaches and also the thought (?) process during the breakdown vs Boston. Get the ball in the hands of the shooters. Just because Jose passed you the ball doesn’t mean you should shoot it. I doubt Sam draws up plays that has Moon shoot every time he touches the ball. You see Sam’s reaction when plays aren’t run, but he doesn’t have the luxury of yanking someone to the bench and having their spot filled by somebody other than a guy that resembles a tree-stump.
You can do that with Joey because presumably you are going to replace him with someone a little better.
Come to think of it, if it comes to injury season, I wonder what we do if Jamario goes down.
Sho: “Our roster is far too easy to guard because of the roster not the coach (although he’s easy to blame).” I have been saying this since day one on Arse’s blog. (It just really depends on where you stand.)
and that ties in with
(RapsFans, #8 is exactly,) what I was saying about the mental game and toughness yesterday. Only Sam has it and the Oakman “is not walking through that door”
I really don’t think it matter how intricate or simple the plays are. The players on this team cannot execute when it matters and most of them never have. So you can scream about Sam getting fired all you want, these guy fill their diapers when Money Time comes around, regardless of who’s on the sideline. Parker and JChocker missed their shots badly and Jose missed an easy shot by a mile.
And that’s beside the point that NO ONE can create their own shot.
THE FUGAZZIS are over rated and over hyped by everyone who doesn’t want to see this team for what it is.
But you know what? At least that lil cunt TJ Ford is gone. YIPPY!!!!
T.J.
PPG 17.0
RPG 4.3
APG 6.0
SPG 0.8
BPG 0.2
FG% 0.475
FT% 0.913
3P% 0.455
MPG 34.5
Jose
PPG 14.9
RPG 3.1
APG 9.4
SPG 0.6
BPG 0.1
FG% 0.453
FT% 1.000
3P% 0.440
MPG 37.9
Almost two triple doubles last two games. And this gem from his coach:
“It’s so important to have toughness at the point guard spot,” O’Brien said. “Mental toughness, physical toughness. I think Larry (Bird) being able to get both of those guys on our team has really changed our whole psyche because everything offensively and defensively starts at the point guard position.”
Where is the game by game comparison of these two, Arse? I was looking forward to that.
Jose is OVER RATED *clapclapclap* OVER RATED *clapclapclap*
Bring on the hate, haters.
I think O’Brien is a completely unbiased observer. TJ’s track record of never making it out of the first round of the playoffs must have been a result of the socialist air in Canada. Despite having the same in-the-clutch record as the rest of his diaper-wearing teammates in Toronto, TJ is a clutch performer.
And if I’m at the ACC when Indiana comes to town I’m standing and clapping for TJ. He was the starting pg and a main contributor to my favourite version of this team – the Garbo team, how I miss it.
And flux, I know, Jose fucked up game 6 in your opinion. If TJ had been in we would have lost in 7 to the No Wins ’til Brooklyn dudes. It’s still a bad team and it needs to be blown up while playing to a half-empty arena. These are the hard facts the rest of us can’t face.
Way to post a (grossly misguided) comment just to incite a reaction FLUX!
You neglect to point out that TJ is a huge liability on the defensive end (one of the reasons we allowed so much dribble penetration last season). While not a stellar defender, Calderon is definitely an upgrade of TJ, not to mention much tougher and more durable over an 82 game season.
This is gonna be a heck of a game. It will be a nice birthday present for me if the Raptors can get a win.
is there a khandor ignore function?
lesterbrain: calderon is by no means an upgrade on defense over tj. the two are equally crap/good/shit/great…whatever their level is, they are equal. it shouldn’t surprise anyone the numbers tj was putting up. the kid is a solid top 12 pg in the league, along with calderon. they are different types of pg’s, but really good ones none-the-less.
flux: lol…you are man after my own heart. i personally leaned towards tj because i like his ability to break down defense off the bounce, but either way, i didn’t care who got shipped out.
me-thinks mitchell was a tj fan…
Happy B’day James. BTW, you all should check out Dino’s blog, one of the better ones out there:
http://www.dinonationblog.com/
Sam, holy shit man. How can you criticize TJ for not making past the 1st round when our franchise player hasn’t done that either??? That is ultimate hypocrisy. Also, I’d rather lose in 7 than 6 any day. I know the end result doesn’t matter but still…
Can’t criticize Khandor today. His first two posts were crisp and two the point and you’ all encourage’d him for what followed.
I agree with his point that most of the blame doesn’t fall on Mitchell. Players just didn’t produce, they turned the ball over and frankly were facing a stifling defence.
At no time during the Celtics game did I think we had the game in the bag. We outplayed them the first 30 or so minutes – they murdered us the last 18. We are all aware its a 48 minute contest.
Arsenalist, quality post. The 23rd is on every supporters calendar. Bargnani trade talk exists only in cyberspace and a few links that I probably would of missed.
Once again my attempt at humour/sarcasm fails. “ultimate hypocrisy”? That’s a bit strong, even by the hystrionic standards of the blogosphere. My point was TJ is as much (but not more of) a money-time choker as the rest of the Raptors. I wish the guy well. He’s good.
I’m starting to think every supporter, fan, misguided tribal honker . . . needs to take a long, deep breath. I think I’ll start.
Sho, “What type of sh*t do you want the Raps to run?” How about a simple 1-3-1 with somebody setting screens, and picks, and running around getting open. The pick and roll doesn’t always have to be JC & CB. JM, AP, & JO can add some variety. The key is, are they capable of taking advantage of the things that do open up? With 2 inside forces & 3 outside shooters, smart passing should always get us a good shot. Even the subs can make it work, if they’re put in the right roles. Use each players strengths. Make the opposition wonder where the ball is going next. No team can cover all the options. There’s always a way to make an advantage. SM just doesn’t seem to be innovative enough. We need a new coach in order to win a playoff series, period.
Sam, as opposed to Jose leading us to the Finals? (started 57 games last year). TJ is clutch, IMO, more so then Jose.
I think we miss some aspects of his game this year. Getting to the rim and the fast break.
Again, I realize (reluctantly because I think Jose is to blame) that the chemistry issue forced BC to get rid of him. But it bothers me to no end that we had a fantastic PG duo, with CB4, here. Where are we at now? Was (thus far) JO’s contribution (comparable to Rasho – look at the numbers) worth the hole left at the PG position. I don’t think so, but hey whatever.
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“You neglect to point out that TJ is a huge liability on the defensive end (one of the reasons we allowed so much dribble penetration last season)”
For his size, I’ll take him. And he does gamble, but is Jose DPOY? I don’t think so, and I wouldn’t call him a vast improvement. Again, it’s a size issue. (that I am willing to take in order to have the getting to the rim and fast break aspects) More importantly, dude has more heart, is more tough and more clutch then Jose. IMO.
Sam, apologize. Didn’t catch the humour but I see you’re picking up FAQ’s vocabulary.
I don’t think TJ was clutch for us, he did win a couple games at the buzzer but he also missed his fair share of iso’s on the last possession. A lot of those had to do with Sam coming out with an unimaginative play out of timeout, basically a 1-on-1 move. I remember making this post:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2007/04/04/game-on-the-line-have-tj-ford-drive-right-and-throw-up-a-prayer/
RapsFan… TJ, Wallace, Mateen…lol. We are on the same wavelength, at the very least. Could not agree more on TJ being Sam’s guy – and Bosh for that matter. It’s taken Bosh a while to like Jose (admitted it himself).
——
And regarding TJ going down. That’s not much of a concern as that’s a worry with any player. Last year, things worked out great when Jose stepped in. Tell me what happens if/when (hopefully not) Jose goes down. Do we just call it a season and look forward to the lottery?
Word to Arse.. I would have taken that game 7 and bet we would have won. ACC rocking it for a game 7? Unbeatable.
Arse, your money is on the line, who do you take for the last shot? Jose or TJ?
I’m not saying dude is MJ, but for my money, TJ gets the nod. Plus, he would have been fighting KG the other night – not yapping from 50 feet away while walking to the bench. Although I was glad to see Jose do that, as opposed to completely ignoring dudes and putting his head down like in previous years and then then saying “I don’t understand what they are saying”
Can’t argue with you there Flux. TJ had some balls, no doubt. He wasn’t scared of anybody and wanted the ball in his hands at crunch time. If a one-on-one move is to be made to win the game, I’d go with TJ. If a play is to be run, I want to say I’d go with Calderon but he did screw up his most clutch possession yet…
Tinman, God I hope Bargs trade talk exists in Colangelo’s office. Once he made the JO move we’re in let’s try to win now mode. Bargs, IF he turns out well, will give us TJ vs. Jose Part II. At most he gives us a good player at a position where we already have at least one great and hopefully one decent (AltRaps & Flux objections noted) player. And Hump can be a #3 big; I feel it in my bones. Trade Bargs for a wing, unless that wing is of the Rodney Carney ilk (Khandor objection noted). Trade him for Harrington and then send Harrington’s soon-to-expire contract to the Charlotte Firesales for Wallace.
Unless . . . shit, maybe BC has a devilish master plan to blow up the team in 2010 and build around Bargs, Jose and Kapono. But even I couldn’t defend that.
I just wanna say to the RaptorsRepublic crew, keep up the great work running this MF. Great stuff all around, pat yourself on the back, fellas. (I did kind of miss AltRap’s Roll Call vs Boston, I thought it was going to be a superb edition, but family fist Rapbrother, no worries.)
All the people commenting, as well, keep bringing it – this is the place to be. I love everyone’s opinions.
Tonight, I hope the Raptors use and abuse the Sixers, as they should be mad at themselves for chocking vs Boston, and bring the same energy as that last game.
LET’S GO RAPTORS! *thunderstix* LET’S GO RAPTORS! *thunderstix*
And i don’t mean to pile on about Ford and whatnot, but for once I would like to read this about Jose:
“… the Pacers were clinging to a one point lead in the fourth, up 96-95 before point guard TJ Ford made the decision to take over and ensure the game was theirs. Ford rang off 11-points in the period, making a three and a layup in the final minute to stave off Oklahoma City and the push Durant was trying to make.”
(Yes, I realize it’s the Thunder but still)
In case anyone is wondering why CB4 played Casper vs. Boston, you need to understand he has more important competitions on his mind:
http://www.ibeatyou.com/index.php
Playoffs? Finals? Rings? F that KG!.. whatyougot on my ibeatyou comp?
Some may not find this as irritating as me, but elite players (winners) in the L, do not spend their time on this. IMO.
In case anyone is wondering why CB4 played Casper vs. Boston, you need to understand he has more important competitions on his mind:
http://www.ibeatyou.com/index.php
Playoffs? Finals? Rings? F that KG!.. whatyougot on my ibeatyou comp? Yeah! What, son?
Some may not find this as irritating as me, but elite players (winners) in the L, do not spend their time on this. IMO.
Flux, Last game against Boston, in Boston last year. I think KG remembered it.
John Hollinger’s taken on the Raptors using Bosh as a decoy. This is an ESPN insider story:
Sam, hmmmm… touche?
I do recall the and 1 play and then surviving the last shot by the Celtics, but I think his stats for the q were something like 3A and 3points. I don’t think that carries the same weight as taking your team on your back or taking over or 5 points in the last minute/11 in the Q . Splitting hairs maybe? Does my bias shine thru or what? : )
Tonight, I want to:
BEAT! THE SIXERS!!
BEAT, BEAT!! THE SIXERS!!
(WHAT!!)
BEAT! THE SIXERS!!
BEAT, BEAT!! THE SIXERS!!
(YEAH!!)
(a la “Fuck Martinez” by 2LiveCrew)
Catch me during the game on TheScore… and the post-game RapsTV!!
“RAPS FANS KNOW TheScore”
&
“RAPS FANS LOVE RAPTORSTV”
(HOLLA IF YA HEAR MEH!!!)
Flux,
TJ Ford type Point Guards do not lead their teams to important W’s in the Playoffs in the NBA. Jose Calderon type PG’s do, consistently.
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Arsenalist,
Coming the down the stretch [i.e. in the final 3:14 of the 4th] …
O’Neal [TO] – Raps ran JK Down Screened for CB [R-Block]; CB Angle Pick for JC [R-Top Of The Key (TOTK)]; Garnett did not ’show’ & stayed with CB; Rondo went ‘over’ the Pick; JC turned the corner, drove for a layup; Pierce sagged off JK [R-Corner] to stop dribble penetration; JC kick to JK; Rondo rotated over from trailing JC to contest the open J3 by JK; JK shot fake, 1 dribble middle; Pierce recovered out; JK pass to JC [R-Short Corner]; Rondo & Perkins rotated to JC; JC middle pass to JO [in the lane]; Allen-R rotated in to check JO; Perkins recovered back to challenge JO’s shot attempt; JO should have shot the ball; JO passes back to JC, ball goes out of bounds; TO/O’Neal.
O’Neal [Missed J2/BS] – Raps ran JK Down Screened for CB [R-Block]; CB Angle Pick for JC [R-TOTK]; Garnett ’showed’ vs JC; Rondo went ‘under’ the Pick; Rondo recovered out to JC; Garnett recovered back to CB; CB [TOTK] tried to back-cut vs Garnett, denied; JC passed to JK [R-Corner]; JO posted up [R-Block]; Perkins muscled JO off the block; JO forced out to 15 ft; JK post entry pass to JO; JK cleared through on the baseline; JO 1-V-1 on Perkins; Rondo sagged to the ballside elbow, into the lane, to deter JO from turning middle; JO should have passed out to JC [TOTK] for the open J3, the same one he hit late vs Milwaukee for the win; instead, JO turned to outside for his own turn-around jumpshot, which was blocked by Perkins; Loose ball recovered by Pierce.
O’Neal [TO] – Sideline Out of Bounds. Raps inbound to JC [R-TOTK]; AP Down screened for CB [R-Block]; CB Angle Pick for JC; CB ’slips’ early to the TOTK; Garnett ’showed & recovered back to CB; Rondo went ‘over’; Pierce sagged off JK [L-FTL Extended (FTLX)] to deter the throwback pass to CB, while Garnett was still recovering; JC picked up his dribble, at the FTLX, in order to pass back to CB, who the play was originally called for; Garnett hard denied [full front] CB; JO posted up [off R-Elbow]; JC passed to JO; AP cleared out along the baseline; JO should have faced up and attacked Perkins off the bounce, 17 ft from the basket; JO passed out to JC; JO set Angle Pick for JC [R-TOTK]; Rondo got picked off by JO; JC turned the corner; Perkins ’switched’ to defend JC, and did so perfectly, without fouling, forcing JC to drive baseline under the basket; Allen-R sagged into the lane, then recovered out to defend AP; Pierce sunk into the lane, then recovered out to defend JK; Garnett had the discipline to never leave CB; Rondo had the discipline to never leave JO; JC read the play correctly and found JO with a high pass out, since he was covered by the smaller Rondo; JO caught the pass, then dribbled in the lane [which he should not have done; he should have gone straight-up for the shot attempt]; Rondo & Garnett attacked the dribble and stripped JO; TO/O’Neal.
Calderon [Missed J2] – CB set Down Screen for JK [L-Elbow]; JK cleared out along the baseline; CB set Angle Pick for JC [L-Elbow]; Rondo was picked off; JC turned the corner; Perkins sagged off JO [R-Elbow] and rotated hard & fast to challenge JC; Garnett had the discipline to stay with CB and NOT help onto JC; JC made the correct read and took a pull-up Jumpshot, which was open; Perkins challenged the pull-up J; Missed J2/Calderon.
Parker [Missed J3] – Sideline Out of Bounds. Inbound pass to AP [R-TOTK]. CB went to set a High Middle Pick for AP; AP rejected the Pick and, instead, attacked Pierce 1-V-1 off the bounce; AP took a J3; Pierce kept AP in front of him & contested the shot; Missed J3/Parker.
Kapono [Missed J3] – JC [in transition] Dribble handoff Pick for JK [L-Corner]; Allen-R went ‘under’; JK [L-FTLX] took a J3, uncontested. Missed J3/Kapono.
Parker [Made J3] – Baseline Out of Bounds. CB & JO set Elbow Screens for AP [L-Elbow]; AP curled around the 2 screens into the Right Corner; Perkins rotated to defend AP; JK cut to the Right FTLX; JO set a Down Screen for JC [inbounds passer]; AP passed out to KP; Allen-R jumped at JK to deter the open ‘catch & shoot’ J; JK shot faked and took 1 sribble to avoid Allen; Perkins & Pierce rotated to JK to prevent the open J; CB spaced out at the TOTK; JK passed to AP [R-Corner]; Perkins rotated out to contest the open J. AP took a J3. Made J3/Parker.
… in every instance Jose Calderon and Chris Bosh read the Celtics’ Defense correctly, and made the correct play, accordingly.
While it’s accurate to say that Calderon missed 1 contested pull-up jumpshot … the other execution errors were made by Jermaine O’Neal [3], Anthony Parker [1] and Jason Kapono [1].
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Enjoy tonight’s game against the 76ers … it should be another hum-dinger!
Khandor, my memory still working at a high rate, I know where you stand on this.. no worries : )
It’s a toss up between these two, if you are asking me. Jose’s playoff performances have not led me to believe in any way shape or form he is the type that brings playoff wins.
In both series (NJ and ORL) he has been hot night cold the next. Is that what playoff game winning PGs do? ; ) I dunnnoo….
An old issue between us, awaiting the test of time.
Mitchell has to go and sorry…PARKER has to go. He is not going to get any better than he has been in the last 2 years..he is too old…he has an expiring contract and he would be a guy any team would love to have (as a back up)…but he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH if the Craptors still insist that they are going to make it to the playoffs let alone get past the first round (which of course, they are NOT).
Moon doesn’t have a big enough contract…Kapono’s is too big…Bargnani has more potential than any of them.
It is PARKER who has to go for a REAL WING.
Parker just had tired legs in the 1st, that’s all. Why the F he was brought back to the NBA is beyond me.
Thanks Man, For the Birthday wishes in advance and the praise. I am gonna try and make it done for one of your Friday things eventually. Living here in Hamilton making the trip to Toronto takes some planning and $$$. But I hope I get down at least once this year.