I’m sitting here wanting to talk about tonight’s game against he Bucks, but all I can think about is how Parker/Bosh/Calderon each played over 40 minutes, in back-to-back nights. In a game where the bench should have got some burn, they didn’t…and why you ask? Cause the bench isn’t very good.Conundrum isn’t…isn’t this team suppose to go the second round? At this point of the season, it isn’t that Mitchell has lost trust in the bench, it’s that he didn’t have any to begin with. How else can you explain the lack of burn these guys have been getting? It’s not like they are a secret atomic weapon waiting to be unleashed at the right time. It’s Solomon, Adams, Graham and Humphries. They do a damn good job of keeping the bench warm, the towels dry and the gatorade cool for the starters, but ballers they aren’t. Humphries isn’t bad. He should have seen more then 4 minutes, he can rebound and bang in the paint. You need that in a tight game like this.
It’s all slowly coming together. All the time the non-starters got during the pre-season was Mitchell hoping they give him something he can use. Solomon had that one good game, but very little afterwards…that’s about it. Jawai has done nothing since his arrival but import a container of vegemite. Adams quite literally hasn’t even broken a sweat.
Another slow start to the game for the Raptors. Bosh didn’t even touch the ball after the tip until the 840 mark, then didn’t attempt his first shot until the 520 mark. During the 6.5 minutes, Moon, the offensive juggernaut that he is, attempted 4 shots, forcing 2 rather badly, and hitting the other two. Needless to say I lost my voice. I don’t understand why a guy who shoots 38% from beyond the arc attempts more three pointers then Kapono and Parker combined (he did hit 3 of them, but it’s not his shot, he wont shoot 50% from beyond the arc again).
On top of that, he only grabbed 2 rebounds. So in three games, he has 3 rebounds. Just the kind of numbers you want to see out of your starting small forward. He grabbed 6 a game last season. This is a contract year. What the hell is he doing? Does he realize that this is probably going to be his last contract in the league? It wont even be a very long one, maybe 4 years if he’s lucky, and that is pushing it. I wouldn’t give him more then 3 (32 year old small forwards start to lose a step. fortunately for him, he’s not the kamikaze type).
O’Neal had another…bad meh game. No, it was bad. In 28 minutes, he managed 11pts, 8rebs, 4 to, a block and yea…he fouled out. It’s not like he was playing a Shaq, Howard, Yao…he had Bogut (who has the tendency to be invisible for stretches). For some reason, Mitchell decided to play Moon at 4 when O’Neal fouled out, which led to Bosh being abused in the post by Bogut and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, for like 4 possessions. Finally, he brings in Bargnani, but that didn’t change the tide of the game, it was just too late, and Milwaukee doesn’t have the coaching or players to come back from being down.
Bosh was a stud again. 20pts, 10reb, 6ast in 41.5 minutes. Primo. The only knock on him was how he got abused late in the 4th by Bogut and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. But after over 120 minutes in 3 days of carrying this team on his back, he gets a pass.
So yea, the Bucks game. All I really have to say is that the Raptors are a better team, and had no business losing this one. Had this not been the second night of a back-to-back, it wouldn’t have been so close. By the way, I am 3-0 in predictions so far this season. I even called the spread, 4 (although I predicted a 97-93 score).
26 Raps
Love the vids – great feature
Unfortunately, the game wasn’t available online, and I fell asleep during the audio. Yeah, wasn’t that exciting. We NEED scoring to come from the bench. It just won’t work if we have 6 people chipping in and the rest of the bench has nothing to contribute. I think Sam needs to play the bench in a trial by fire or something. Roko needs more minutes, and even if he fails along the way he is getting experience. Bargnani is on and off, but at least if he is paired with one of the starting big men he should be able to hold his own most of the time. It just isn’t possible to keep this ship together with a 7 man rotation.
3 down and 43 to go. I guess a 46/47 win season should get them to the playoffs. But what will be left of the team is another story. Somehow the coach has to improve the bench and give the big 3 some rest. It worked for Boston but they had support coming off the bench.
I guess the old saying is correct “Just win !”.
sooo…what to think of this? the bench depth (lack of) has to be a concern, of course, but isn’t that on the guys on the bench? i mean, it’s not like it’s entirely new, robo & hump have been around a while, if they aren’t grabbing the opportunity to make an impact at this stage, then they aren’t gonna be in the league much longer – i mean, if you can’t distinguish yourself amoung THIS group of benchwarmers, what use do they have for ‘em? finger-pointing at this stage is useless, i guess, just have to hope they turn it around & can give more than a handful of minutes every 3 games.
now, i’m guessing that despite it being a home/away back-to-back, smitch didn’t mind stretching his starters, since they don’t play ’till wednesday, but it was pretty obvious that they were gassed by the middle of the 4Q. in years past, i think the bench would have been used more, and a loss would maybe have been more ‘acceptible,’ but i get the sense that they really grasp how important every game is, and that wins are too valuable, even early in the year when an ‘excuse’ for losing is available (no bench production, 2nd of a home/away b-2-b, against a team that’s well rested & with guys who can take advantage of the raps’ weaknesses, etc). so, the bad bench = bad sign, but the attitude of there not being any excuses for losing & every game is important = good sign.
and let’s be perfectly honest here – there were some serious stretches when the starters weren’t doing much either, which seems to be something of a trend…once again, jose stepped up when the offense was stagnating.
just a thought re. bargs – other than some decent D in stretches, i didn’t find him to be overly active, and didn’t feel he had a good game at all, but…does anyone else get the feeling that the refs just love making calls against him, that they’re almost looking to? i would have thought the kind of ticky-tack bullshit calls would have started to go his way (or just not be called) by now, but at times, it seems he can’t make a move w/o either being called for a travel or offensive fould. now certainly, he does do both, as do all players, but it seems as though quite a few of the calls are based on reputation more than anything.
Raps Fan, this is one of the worst wrap-ups I have ever read. Till I got to the last line I would not have known the Raptors won. Everything was so negative.
This game was won by the Raptors defensive game.
This was a great game, with a group of athletes who just refused to lose, although they had every reason/excuse to, led by Calderon’s outstanding scoring when no one else could, and Bosh on the free throw line, and on the boards, when he was being well defensed.
Also well supported by Moon, and Parker on defense and offense, not to mention the defense from O’Neal and Bargnani, and offense from Kapono.
A total TEAM effort.
I think it was a mistake by Smitch, in losing faith in his bench and overworing the starters. He should have gave Humph some more time out there, give some players a rest especially Bosh. Maybe Calderon can keep up with the amount of minutes but a big guy like Bosh couldn’t.
It was also suprising to see JO foul out, it is a rare thing to see a Raptor fouling out because Smitch tend to be the worrying type and he always sat guys out with quick fouls so he can save them to the end. This time around he just kept JO out there which was not the smartest thing to do because we needed JO during crunch time.
His second mistake was putting Moon at the four for a brief period in the fourth. It’s those kind of moves (Bargnani at the playoffs at 3) that makes you wonder about Smitch decision making. If you never done something in an actual ball game why would you try it now in crucial crunch time?!
Smitch has been very good in the first 2 Raptor games but in this one, he almost handed the Bucks the win. Against top tier teams, you wouldn’t been able to get away with it.
Johnn19: I guess you didn’t read the title huh? it wasn’t intended to be a wrap-up as more an early state-of-the-union.
hotshot: agreed, he needs to play the bench more. hump, joey, got way more burn last season on a ‘deeper’ team. now that they should be playing more, they aren’t. i don’t get it.
darien: try justin.tv and go to the sports section, or channelsurfing.net. they usually have it available.
This is very negative. The Raptors have 3 days off and I see nothing wrong with Mitchell extending his starters. Nothing at all. Don Nelson does this shit all the time. I mean, it sounds to me that you’d rather the Raptors lose and everybody get some playing time than we win and stretch Bosh out.
Now, you do have a point that this might not be a sustainable way of winning games but do you honestly think if we internet junkies can figure that out, BC can’t? C’mon. Sam will give everybody a shot if not because of his own thinking then through BC’s command. Then if it becomes evident that the bench really sucks then we’ll make a move at the trading deadline. Give the GM some credit.
I said this in that hilarious Roll Call thread but JO had a great game. A fucking great game. I don’t know if you’re expecting 20/10 from him but that’s not going to happen, so far he’s provided a CONSISTENT defensive presence making AP and Calderon look like great defensive players. Scoring against the Raptors is no longer as simple as turning the corner on high screen ‘n roll.s
Over the summer on arsenalist.com I made a post about Moon’s jumpers:
http://arsenalist.com/2008/08/30/jamario-moon-needs-to-make-a-jumper/
Here’s what I thought then and that’s exactly what I think now:
I have no problem with him shooting IF HE’S GOING TO MAKE THEM. That does not preclude me for shitting on him when he doesn’t but I sure am not going to complain even when he’s making them. Plus, did anyone notice that the kink in his jumper isn’t there anymore? Looks smoother, no?
I mean, I’m a pessimistic by nature, especially when it comes to the Raptors but you gotta admire when we pull out a road win on a back to back
If you want to shit on something, shit on the fact that the Calderon three came off of random freestyling and didn’t look like anything that was drawn up.
It’s kind of hard to be negative when your team with major flaws starts the season 3-0 following an OT back to back w/one on the road.
Issues, sure. Every team has them. Ours might come back to bite us in the ass, but so far we’re thriving despite our shortcomings, not failing because of them. We might have lost all three of these games last year. That was a different team. This team looks more confident, more assertive, and more energized.
Yes, I realize we’re three games in. But this is all we have to go on, so let’s take the evidence presented to us and use that to pass judgement.
Was just about to post something, but Arse hit all of my points dead on. So, ummm, ditto to Arse?
One point I do want to restate though. Sam realizes he rode his starters hard. He realizes this is unsustainable. Attempts will be made to correct it. Give the coaching and management some credit.
i admire the fact they pulled out 3 wins to start to the season. and like you, i’m a pessimist about the raptors by nature. but playing bosh/parker/calderon for 40+ minutes against a lesser team is horrible. think of it like this, what the hell is this team gonna do when they play the celtics/pistons/magic/cavs or anyone in the west? start playing the bench at that point?
sure bryco knows what we know, they probably know more (or should), but what the hell have they done in the last three games that is any sort of indication to what they plan to do against the elite teams? the answer is nothing.
as far as o’neal, 20/10 wasn’t expected. what was expected is for him to be in the games at crunch time, and contribute a solid 16pts/9rebs/2blks a game. he hasn’t done that yet, but he hasn’t played regular minutes in over a year. i’m sure that will come.
Raps Fan:
What’s this bullshit about lessor teams in the NBA, where any team can win any night. Did you see the Indiana 95 Boston 79 game as an example?
Arse, you saw the game. You saw when Bosh was struggling turning over the ball constantly in the final mins, and let Bogut have his way with him when he attempted to guard him. The game could have been easily been lost to the Bucks and we wouldn’t be here talking about semantics. Sure the Raptors won but they won because the other team couldn’t captalized on the Raptors mistakes (due to fatigue) while making their own mistakes in the process.
I do agree with you that JO played well. There are some things you don’t see on the stat sheet that JO brings to the table ( team confidence, interior block defence, opening things up for Bosh and the guards on the offensive end). When JO left the game because of fouling out, the Raptors reverted themseleves back to last season tean where Bosh was forced to carry the team on his back, forcing jump shots and having almost a fourth quarter collapse.
“Sure the Rapto-rs won but th-ey won because the other team couldn’t captalized on the Raptors mistakes (due to fatigue) while making their own mistakes in the process.”
That’s how you win NBA games. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I do agree with you saying that
“Raptors reverted themseleves back to last season tean where Bosh was forced to carry the team on his back, forcing jump shots and having almost a fourth quarter collapse.”
As I already said, Jose’s three bailed us out just like Bosh’s jumper against Philly bailed us out at 90-84 and just how his one-on-one dunk bailed us out against GSW. Our offense has been stagnant late in games and we’re basically clearing out for Bosh every time. This is an issue that needs to be fixed for the Detroit game because sooner or later Bosh will start missing and we’ll have nothing to fall back on. Sam, I’m looking at you on this one.
“Was just about to post something, but Arse hit all of my points dead on.” Mine to. I’m far from being expert as you guys, just a fan who loves the Raptors and the game (and soccer). When we criticize Moon, Kapono or Bargnani for doing something they should not in our opinion, or not doing something we expect, don’t you think that they are doing exactly what Sam requested. When Moon had rebounds we criticized his low scoring; now when he scores we miss his rebounding. Are we forgetting that he is just a decent player? Kapono not being open and shooting 3’s freaks me out to. Does he not play the way Sam wants him to play? Bargnani up-down? Not sure about that. How many times they were in position for shoot, how many times they did not get the ball when they should have? Some of you blogers rely too much on statistics forgetting about team play. 3-0 baby! I hope you do not seriously expect them to be better then Boston,Detroit,Huston,LA…But as I sad I’m far from being an expert.
The Pistons are going to exploit us, Michael Curry has something to prove!
A win is a win!!!!!! That is the bottom line… There is always going to be room for improvement. If today is the best you can do, then there is no need for tomorrow!!! They win, we should be happy…. They lose, we blame the coach!!!
A good start for the Raptors at 3-0, but we will get a better feeling for how good they may be currently and in the future.
Priorites for now are:
1.Get the back-up PG situation improved to play 12/14 mins/game.
2 Develope the 2nd unit to play 12/14 mins/game without a stop to the offensive/defensive game.
The next 8 games should give some answers to Mitchell, Colangelo, & the Fan base, as to where the team is now, 3 home & 5 away.
Detroit @ home
Atlanta on road
Charlotte on road
Boston on road
Philadelphia @ home
Miami @ home
Orlando on road
Miami on road
S: that is the attitude that got the leafs where they are today.
Johnn19: i agree totally with your two points. i’d like to add a third: a whole team commitment to rebounding, not just from the front court.
I dunno, Raps Fan … Upon reflection, and asking myself what I would have done if I were the Raptor coach. I now have some empathy for Mitchell and his decision to play a tight, small rotation. What would I have done differently if I were coach and knew what Mitchell knew about this ‘team’..??!!!
The first conclusion is that I don’t have a bench. They are neither athletic, nor basketball-wise(I love that term) nor deserving of playing in the NBA based on what I may have seen of them in practice and pre-season.
This forces me to conclude that I must establish my starting 5 with only 2-3 subs used sparingly. There is no depth to the bench, and throwing them in is very risky, and only justified during junk time.
If the Pistons are blowing out the Raptors this Wednesday, I would like to see the bench players on the floor. If the game is close, run with the rotation because the tribal honking fans will not tolerate submission to the visiting enemy even though the cause is lost.
Sooner or later, Mitchell will have to show us what his players at the end of the bench can do … or just hope that BC can pull off some kind of super-trade soon. Maybe I’m wrong and Mitchell is keeping his bench strength camouflaged to spring it on to some unsuspecting top-tier team to crush them mercilessly …LOL
I think after the over achievement of two seasons ago, and the under-achievement of a year ago, Toronto fans are keeping their optimism tempered. It is as if we are afraid to cheer whole-heartedly for the team for fear of grave disappointment. But is not fan short for fanatic!
How is this for an idea? What a perfect time to let your starters know what could be the demands on them for the season. Game three and a back to back. Perfect time to let your starters discover what type of shape they are in. I would prefer the starters get mentally ready for play-offs now. The season is a marathon and the start of the race is a good time to figure out how it will have to end. Come play-offs the rotation will be very tight and long nights for five people.
I agree with Sam playing the three as long as he did. That is their job. Game three against a weaker team is the best time to test your endurance.
Fatigue did play a factor in turnovers. The fatigue level did make things a little wobbly at times. But Game Three is the time to do that. After the Bucks game they know what they will be called on to do.
But hey let’s face it, this is the best starting five Toronto has had in a while. I watched some older games over the summer and also some games from last season. This current roster is the first time this team has been a cohesive unit in probably four or five years. There seems to be a respect and care for each other that will translate into a trust and performance on the floor. They like each other.
BOSH IS A BEAST. I think this is the year we see his name mentioned more and more along side all the best playing the game today. Having had a chance to chat with him in person a couple of years ago there is a calmness and maturity beyond his years. Also his Olympic experience matured him beyond what I thought possible at this time. I guess a gold medal and getting bigtime props from Kobe and one of the best college coachers ever can do that sort of thing. His numbers will be bigger this year on both ends of the floor.
Calderon is a floor general in a way that Steve Nash is though he does not have Nashes speed or flare. But he does have Nashes selflessness and will have Nashes BB IQ over the next few seasons. And he is learning when he has to be selfish for the benefit of the team.
O’Neal? Brian has basketball moxy. The Raptors would not have taken a gamble if it did not have the potential to be a very big payoff. O’Neal has already proven he adds swagger, confidence, and defensive agression to the Raptors. I think how many times he puts the ball in the hoop is irrelevant. If we get great defense and balls and 10 points a game we should consider it money well spent. Yeah I know, the health thing. We will see. And O’Neal seems to be rubbing his agression and swagger off on his mates. Something we always thought there was a lack of.
Moon is a a free safty. He roams the floor adding a little bit where it is needed. The guy has got a lot of talent. How Sam is able to get him to focus it will be the tale of the tape. His shot has improved and if he goes one for two all season that is not a bad thing. And then take it to the hole when the lane is there. We have to see Moon in a new role not the one he had last year. I think he is also trying to figure out what his role is as well.
Parker? EVERY article I have read does not mention Anthony Parker very often. Though there are tons of complaints about the team no one seems to mention AP as a strength or weakness. Parker is glue. He has great genetics, good basketball IQ. Battle tested. Maturity. Every team needs an AP. I expect at least at 20% improvement in his contributions this year.
The Bench? Hmmmmm? A lot of nurturing needed. But potential is there.
HEALTH!? Yeah that will be the decider in the end for this team.
And of course the Eatern Conference is tougher than it has been in years.
This season has the potential to be a very competitive one for the East. Sit back and enjoy. AND HEY!!! We should be a little over optimistic. That is why they are called home team fans. Leave the pessimism to the pundits.
FAQ, I almost feel the exact same way. Every win is crucial, especially the ones against teams we “should” beat, but the bench needs experience and if they dont get gametime now, they won’t be able to help out when it comes to crunch time in the playoffs and our starters are too burned out to play 40+ minutes every game.
So, what I want to see are the bench players that are reasonable subs – Humphries, Ukic, Solomon at SG maybe and Bargnani all getting serious minutes when we are getting blown out. If we are down by 18 going into the 4th against teams like Boston or LA, sit the starters out – they’re tired and fatigue will just make it easier for those kinds of teams. The bench will get good experience against much more talented players and hopefully learn something for the future. Sure, there’s a slim chance of winning if we run Bosh’s knees into the ground (again), but I think it would be far more beneficial to just take the loss and the experience for the bench.
@Steve B – “When Moon had rebounds we criticized his low scoring; now when he scores we miss his rebounding.” WOOORD!!
@S. – typical and insanely ridiculous.
@Arse – “I mean, I’m a pessimistic by nature, especially when it comes to the Raptors” C’mon man! :) I am not buying that for one second, I am not saying you are the opposite, but definitively not that. RE: JO – please tell my why I shouldn’t expect 20/10 from him? Especially, after the way he’s been advertised. Only 30 years old, no major mileage, etc etc. Please tell me why I am supposed to be satisfied with him only taking up space and acting like KG when he gets a meaningless block in the 2 or 3 q.
@RapsFan – this wasn’t negative as some are making it out to be. It is what it is. Nothing to get excited about, and still (for some) some things left desired. I appreciate the non-bukake writing like some of comments on here.
hey rapsfan…i really think you should change your name..
o’neal brings a lot more than stats to the team, when have you ever seen the raps be accountable on D before? i know charlie V is a wimp, but after o’neal blocked 1 shot of his, he never ventured into the paint again.
and if you’re so concerned with stats (moon inparticular), then i believe you’re missing a rather important one..Moon was guarding RJ for the majority of the game…what was his shooting %? (3 for 13). so why the hate on moon, if he’s playing tough D and limiting one of the best offensive players on the other team to only 9pts?
the team as a whole has to rebound better…not just moon.
will do jonesy, thanks for the suggestion.
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